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[frogfactory]

Are these studies purely looking at educational outcomes, or are they looking at socia/behaviourall outcomes as well?

Froggy, who was bullied quite badly at school and hated it, but took lessons (as well as severe depression) from it on how life goes.

So you are worried that homeschooled children might be denied the opportunity to experience severe depression?

Don't be ridiculous.  Do you think I'd have avoided depression if my parents had chosen to shield me from society instead?  I was merely pointing out that no outcome is cakes and roses.

How exactly are homeschooled children "shielded from society"?  I know three families that homeschool--two because otherwise the kids would spend 4 hours on the school bus every day, the third, well, I'm not sure why.  They're Catholic, but I don't know if that had anything to do with it.  All three families are active in the community.  The first two send their kids to soccer practice, 4H, rodeo competitions, etc.  The third family is very active in ice hockey, and that's how I met all the kids.  Yeah, they don't go to school, but they're hardly living a life of isolation.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the OP.  I just find your assumptions about homeschooled kids to be, well, just that--assumptions.

Are you seriously implying that homeschooled children have normal social lives?  You seriously think that interactions at sports clubs are equivalent to actually living in a day to day situation where you spend more time with your peers than your family?  Don't you remember a thing about being a kid?

[msparticularity]

Are these studies purely looking at educational outcomes, or are they looking at socia/behaviourall outcomes as well?

Froggy, who was bullied quite badly at school and hated it, but took lessons (as well as severe depression) from it on how life goes.

So you are worried that homeschooled children might be denied the opportunity to experience severe depression?

Don't be ridiculous.  Do you think I'd have avoided depression if my parents had chosen to shield me from society instead?  I was merely pointing out that no outcome is cakes and roses.

How exactly are homeschooled children "shielded from society"?  I know three families that homeschool--two because otherwise the kids would spend 4 hours on the school bus every day, the third, well, I'm not sure why.  They're Catholic, but I don't know if that had anything to do with it.  All three families are active in the community.  The first two send their kids to soccer practice, 4H, rodeo competitions, etc.  The third family is very active in ice hockey, and that's how I met all the kids.  Yeah, they don't go to school, but they're hardly living a life of isolation.

Of course, none of this is relevant to the OP.  I just find your assumptions about homeschooled kids to be, well, just that--assumptions.

Are you seriously implying that homeschooled children have normal social lives?  You seriously think that interactions at sports clubs are equivalent to actually living in a day to day situation where you spend more time with your peers than your family?  Don't you remember a thing about being a kid?

Actually, Froggy, social interactions have changed very dramatically since my childhood--and it has nothing to do with schooling patterns. In my childhood, non-school hours were largely spent in the company of other kids, playing pick-up games of tag, hide-and-seek, whiffle ball, or whatever. We had to find one another, figure out what/how to play, and work out our differences. Now, in this era of heavy parental supervision and organized sports, this kind of unstructured recreation is virtually unknown.

To the degree that homeschooled children have unstructured time where they have to self-organize and interact and negotiate with others, they may be getting socialization far superior to those who attend school but whose non-school hours are entirely managed by their parents and assorted adult coaches.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with what I take to be your basic point, but I think you may be over-simplifying a bit.

[history_grrrl]

Ironically, a friend of mine's wife (he's an academic) homeschooled one of their kids not long ago. They are non-religious and live in a very conservative, religious southern community, and the biblical stuff in science class got to be too much. It only lasted a year, though, because the kid missed his friends (and frankly, my friend's wife thought it was going to destroy her relationship with her son).

I hope school guidance counselors are more hip these days than they were 40 years ago. I was a very shy kid, extremely unhappy about switching to a new grade school when my mother remarried and we all moved in with her new husband and his kids, and got sent to the counselor. It was awful; she was very old-fashioned (think hairstyle and fashion sense of Miss Gulch in the original film version of The Wizard of Oz) and I couldn't relate to her at all. I literally sat there looking at my hands every week for a year. I too was bullied (didn't have that word then). School was a nightmare. I don't remember telling anyone what was going on, but I also don't remember anyone asking. I hope somebody is asking this girl why she is school-phobic.

[stanwyck]

Actually, yes, yes, and yes.  FWIW, even my mother and her sisters were homeschooled for awhile when they were kids, simply because there were no schools in the valley until my mom was 8-9 or so.  Different times, yes, but it's not like my mom never played with the neighbor kids when she was little.

In the two cases I referred to (not the hockey playing kids), the families started homeschooling because it was a 2-hour bus ride into town. Do you really think making a 5-year old spend 4 hours on a bus for a 1/2-day of kindergarten is somehow going to provide so many social benefits that it's worth it to coop the kid up like that?  You drag your 5-year-old out of bed at 4 am every morning so he can have this experience, and see how much you and he both like it.

The data aren't in yet on the pluses and minuses of homeschooling, so all we can talk is anecdotes.  And all I can say is that I know four families (my partner reminded me last night that our plumber's kids were homeschooled), and I like all the kids.  They all seem to be doing fine in the world.  You haven't provided any actual examples or published data to suggest that they didn't have perfectly acceptable childhoods.  You're making sweeping generalizations based on absolutely no information. 

[mntwins]

I suggest getting your daughter an appointment with a licensed mental health clinician that specializes in children to help her cope with and manage her anxiety.  It is crucial for your daughter to feel connected in order for the therapy to be successful.

[frogfactory]

In the two cases I referred to (not the hockey playing kids), the families started homeschooling because it was a 2-hour bus ride into town. Do you really think making a 5-year old spend 4 hours on a bus for a 1/2-day of kindergarten is somehow going to provide so many social benefits that it's worth it to coop the kid up like that? 

Choosing to live two hours from school when you have kids is irresponsible parenting.  Moving, even if it means downscaling, would have been the humane option, not homeschooling.

[ms_turtle]

In the two cases I referred to (not the hockey playing kids), the families started homeschooling because it was a 2-hour bus ride into town. Do you really think making a 5-year old spend 4 hours on a bus for a 1/2-day of kindergarten is somehow going to provide so many social benefits that it's worth it to coop the kid up like that?  

Choosing to live two hours from school when you have kids is irresponsible parenting.  Moving, even if it means downscaling, would have been the humane option, not homeschooling.

Living two hours from school is not the same thing as riding a two hour route. Growing up I was 12 miles from school but spent at least 45 minutes on the bus both going to and from school. Even if a family does live two hours from a school, they have made a decision based on what they feel is right for their family.

[collegekidsmom]

Yes, I also had a one hour bus ride each way to the nearest public school, so two hours every day. My kids had a 45 minute ride each way as well. For them it was the most fun part of the day. I have no idea what happened on that bus that made it so much fun. I don't want to know.

[mdwlark]

Yes, I also had a one hour bus ride each way to the nearest public school, so two hours every day. My kids had a 45 minute ride each way as well. For them it was the most fun part of the day. I have no idea what happened on that bus that made it so much fun. I don't want to know.

Possibly, social development.

[macaroon]

I hope school guidance counselors are more hip these days than they were 40 years ago. I was a very shy kid, extremely unhappy about switching to a new grade school when my mother remarried and we all moved in with her new husband and his kids, and got sent to the counselor. It was awful; she was very old-fashioned (think hairstyle and fashion sense of Miss Gulch in the original film version of The Wizard of Oz) and I couldn't relate to her at all.

Mine varied when I was a kid.  We moved around a lot, and I ended up in their offices on occasion.  I'm assuming that going to see the guidance counselor has already proved to not be satisfactory.  I was suggesting that, since the guidance counselor already knows the OP's daughter, and presumably knows and has worked with other mental health professionals,  the GC may be a good resource for finding a more appropriate therapist. 

For me, even if the guidance counselors were totally ineffective, it made me feel better to know that they cared.  It might help the OP's daughter to have the GC involved.  It might help her realize that even though she's had problems, the school system hasn't given up on her. 

[stanwyck]

In the two cases I referred to (not the hockey playing kids), the families started homeschooling because it was a 2-hour bus ride into town. Do you really think making a 5-year old spend 4 hours on a bus for a 1/2-day of kindergarten is somehow going to provide so many social benefits that it's worth it to coop the kid up like that? 

Choosing to live two hours from school when you have kids is irresponsible parenting.  Moving, even if it means downscaling, would have been the humane option, not homeschooling.

Oh, please.  Every rancher in the U.S. and Canada needs to sell up the farm and move into the city, otherwise not have children?  Good luck with that.  I don't know where you get the idea that farmers need to "downscale" (to what, living in an RV?), but you sound completely uninformed about rural agricultural life.  And, yes, as several people have pointed out, a 2-hour bus ride means living 30 miles from school, and I have no idea why you would think that's not an acceptable lifestyle for families with children.

[frogfactory]

Having children is not a requirement, last time I checked.  If you can't adjust to the responsibility or choose not to, don't.

I cannot understand why anyone would think that bringing up children in social isolation is in any way acceptable.  I don't care if you know a couple of kids that endured it and turned out okay.  There are kids who grew up in Romanian and Chinese orphanages and turned out just fine, that doesn't mean that's an acceptable model for bringing up children.

I accept that I will draw fire for my opinions on this matter.

[ms_turtle]

Having children is not a requirement, last time I checked.  If you can't adjust to the responsibility or choose not to, don't.

I cannot understand why anyone would think that bringing up children in social isolation is in any way acceptable.  I don't care if you know a couple of kids that endured it and turned out okay.  There are kids who grew up in Romanian and Chinese orphanages and turned out just fine, that doesn't mean that's an acceptable model for bringing up children.

I accept that I will draw fire for my opinions on this matter.

So, how did your social immersion during childhood work out for you? Did you learn anything from it? Are you learning from your current social immersion?

I don't need to wait for the answers because you've already shown everyone through your posts.

[mdwlark]

Meanwhile, back on the original topic.....

I hope school guidance counselors are more hip these days than they were 40 years ago. I was a very shy kid, extremely unhappy about switching to a new grade school when my mother remarried and we all moved in with her new husband and his kids, and got sent to the counselor. It was awful; she was very old-fashioned (think hairstyle and fashion sense of Miss Gulch in the original film version of The Wizard of Oz) and I couldn't relate to her at all. I literally sat there looking at my hands every week for a year. I too was bullied (didn't have that word then). School was a nightmare. I don't remember telling anyone what was going on, but I also don't remember anyone asking. I hope somebody is asking this girl why she is school-phobic.

I got news for you.  It is now forty years later and you and I look terribly unhip to young girls.  My first thought when I read this was that this guidance counselor probably had a wealth of experience and accumulated knowledge.  I don't know if she didn't have the skill or for some reason wasn't able to reach out and build a trusting relationship in a meaningful way, or if you held her at bay despite her best efforts.  Girls are a lot more focused on superficial acceptability for themselves and others and on average are much harder to counsel than boys.  Girls at that age buy into sexism for people in authority even more than boys too.  Most of the boys are just glad to have someone to talk to and open up when they are not around other boys.  It is too bad you couldn't connect, since she was the only act in town and the services of school guidance counselors are free. 

I hope somebody is asking this girl why she is school-phobic.

This is a really good point.  I hope so too, and that the person can see beyond the kid explanation to recognize what it means. 

[frogfactory]

Having children is not a requirement, last time I checked.  If you can't adjust to the responsibility or choose not to, don't.

I cannot understand why anyone would think that bringing up children in social isolation is in any way acceptable.  I don't care if you know a couple of kids that endured it and turned out okay.  There are kids who grew up in Romanian and Chinese orphanages and turned out just fine, that doesn't mean that's an acceptable model for bringing up children.

I accept that I will draw fire for my opinions on this matter.

So, how did your social immersion during childhood work out for you? Did you learn anything from it? Are you learning from your current social immersion?

I don't need to wait for the answers because you've already shown everyone through your posts.

Now, this is just silly on an academic forum.  Sorry if I've hit a nerve, which clearly I have, but your personal inferences are just childish and somewhat ridiculous.  Resorting to name calling belies the weakness of your position and makes you appear a little foolish.