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[sun_shine]

I have a few students asking that the text is very costly, can we go an earlier version. I have sympathy for all the cost concerned students, but i am not sure how to respond. I have recently started teaching in US. The dept has given me the name and edition of the textbook. (it is not chosen by me) what should be the best response to such queries.

[cc_alan]

I have a few students asking that the text is very costly, can we go an earlier version. I have sympathy for all the cost concerned students, but i am not sure how to respond. I have recently started teaching in US. The dept has given me the name and edition of the textbook. (it is not chosen by me) what should be the best response to such queries.

I tell students that they are responsible for the edition of textbook that is assigned to the course. How they do it is up to them. Assigned homework, sections, etc. are all according to the assigned edition and if they use a previous one, then they need to get with another student so they can match up reading sections, homework, etc.

If a student chooses to go this route, then the responsibility is placed on the student and not on me to tell her/him what's different between the editions.

Alan

[mountainguy]

What Alan said.

I'm actually very sympathetic to students on this issue, as I think most textbook publishers are committing the legal equivalent of highway robbery with unethical practices. In a few of my courses, when I'm familiar with older editions and still think they're sufficient, I'll encourage students to use them. But ultimately, they are responsible for knowing the differences in material.

[kedves]

(Sorry, long, am sticking student email in here for example.)

I teach one course that requires two books and both are expensive ($160 combined).  I got a lot of questions like this when the course started.  The publisher has a "what's new" comparison for the 6th and 5th editions, so I directed students to that.  I said, "You will have to make your own decision, keeping in mind that lecture material and test questions come from the new edition, not the old edition."  The new edition of both books is on 2-hour reserve at the library.



Here's what I get (actual email):
==================================
I do not normally question quiz answers, but this time I figured it was worth a shot. I have the 4th edition of the text book [We are using the 6th edition] but did compare index's [meaning tables of contents; this student is unaware of and does not know how to use the index] and they are the same for this chapter. I read all the assigned readings and going into the quiz and even hitting "submit" I felt very confident, but I still missed three questions.

Missed question #1
On which of the following characteristics does husband’s place in the typical American family most heavily depend?
If the question was between poor and lower middle class, I probably would have said "a job" but since it was a typical American family I put "a college degree". [! 75% of Americans do not have a college degree.]  We talked so much about a women who was a stay at home mother but had a college education as being more prestigious then a stay at home mother with only a high school diploma. [No, we did not.]  I understand how job could have been the answer but I think a college degree and job go to much hand in hand to separate. [! Lucky you!]  Also, we talked about a college degree being the key factor in getting a job, so I felt the husbands place in the family would also be heavily based on a college degree.

Missed question #2
What do studies of children's play, such as those by psychologist Eleanor Maccoby, suggest about the effects of same-gender peer groups?
Where was the Maccoby citation? [p X and Y in 6th ed. but also in 5th and 4th ed.]  I thought this question was referring to the Invisible Inequality article [an article about class, not gender, and by a different author with a different name], and it talks mainly about boys and had a few girls studied but I do not remember reading anything about there being an effect from same-gendered peer groups. Since it mainly talked about the difference in the use of their time and not difference in gender of peers, I figured there was not a significant effect. After I saw the answers I tried to look up the article and could not find it.

Missed question #3
For which group of women, by educational level, has the risk of divorce has grown fastest in recent years?
We had just talked about how men who have a job are more likely to get married and when I think of job I do not think of the poor. [!]  Also, I figured poor people would not have enough money to get married, let alone divorce. [!]  So, I picked a more educated group and said "college graduates".

-----------------
[PART OF REPLY]

If you are using the 4th edition of the book, copyright 2004, you are using a book two editions out of date.  We are using the 6th edition.  The indexes are not going to tell you what you are missing.  The publisher's website can be used for a "what's new" of 6th vs. 5th, but for 6th vs. 4th, you would have to take your book to the reserve room of the library where the course books are on reserve and compare chapter by chapter.  An index is an extremely basic list of what is in a book, not a description.  I can't say how the 6th and 4th are different because I have not had a copy of the 4th edition around for a couple of years, at least.

==============================

The student is not paying attention OR doing the reading, and has a mental block against understanding that most people are not in her social class with her opportunities (common mental block), but the fact that she has the two-editions-ago version of the book compounds the problem.  I give page #s for the correct answer in Blackboard quiz feedback, but those will not match her edition even if the contents are the same.

Overall, I go with the "Do it at your own risk--how important is your grade?" advice.
But with an expensive book especially, I think you must put it on reserve and not allow it to be removed from the library.

[frogfactory]

Indices, not indexes.

[kedves]

Indices, not indexes.

Do you honestly think that would help me communicate with the student above?

[frogfactory]

Indices, not indexes.

Do you honestly think that would help me communicate with the student above?

No, it just niggles.

As to the question - depends on the textbook and what you're asking from it, of course.

[yellowtractor]

I always insist on the edition I myself am using, because sections, pagination, etc. always vary, and this can create all sorts of trainwrecks in and out of the classroom.  If money is an issue, I suggest ways of obtaining used copies inexpensively on-line, including Amazon.com.

[kedves]

Indices, not indexes.

Do you honestly think that would help me communicate with the student above?

No, it just niggles.

Possibly this varies internationally.  My high-school American Heritage dictionary says the same thing as Merriam-Webster online:  in-dex-es or in-di-ces.  I gave my OED to my ex because it wasn't very useful, so can't say what it says.

[msmicrobe]

Indices, not indexes.

My dictionary has both spellings as standard and acceptable.

[yellowtractor]

Indices, not indexes.

My dictionary has both spellings as standard and acceptable.

Is this one of those dictionaries that got banned in California?

[prof_smartypants]

Like Alan, they are responsible for the material - if they want to put in the extra effort to ensure that they get it, they are welcome to use whatever book they want. However, I usually scan the TOC from the latest edition to give students with earlier editions the opportunity to compare what they have and help them out a bit.

[msmicrobe]

Indices, not indexes.

My dictionary has both spellings as standard and acceptable.

Is this one of those dictionaries that got banned in California?

Probably. It has quite a variety of words. And I have used it to teach my eldest the meaning of the naughty words he hears others saying. That way, if he ever decides to use them out of my earshot, he'll know exactly what he is saying. :-)

What is interesting is the same photograph shows up next to the entries annoying, troll, and inflammatory.

I have a very cool dictionary.


As far as expensive books. I empathize. But the students are responsible for the current edition. I have copies on reserve in the library for those that might need them. And for students who are really struggling with money and show a solid work ethic, I give them my extra copies of older editions that I have lying about my office. I don't ever sell them as I don't think it's ethical for me to profit off of what was given to me. But I'll gladly pass them on to worthy new owners.

[monita]

This is discipline dependent, I think.  In introductory science courses, I generally recommend that students use the text as a reference manual, rather than try to read each chapter through start to finish and remember everything.  In that case, a book that is one or two editions old is perfectly functional as long as the students actually use the table of contents and index.  When anything major changes in the field that would likely be reflected in a new text edition, I usually discuss that new finding in lecture anyway.

[cc_alan]

This is discipline dependent, I think.  In introductory science courses, I generally recommend that students use the text as a reference manual, rather than try to read each chapter through start to finish and remember everything.  In that case, a book that is one or two editions old is perfectly functional as long as the students actually use the table of contents and index.  When anything major changes in the field that would likely be reflected in a new text edition, I usually discuss that new finding in lecture anyway.

A problem with introductory science textbooks is that the publishers seem to be on a 2-4 year publishing cycle regardless of whether the book merits a new edition so it's not about requiring students to read each chapter from start to finish and remembering everything.

It's about me remembering what's been changed and I'm not going to keep track of what happens with the assigned textbooks after more than edition change since after a year or so, I doubt I'd be able to remember anything other than major changes.

Alan