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[cc_alan]

Some teachers can draw feedback from large rooms. You may not be one of them, but that doesn't mean it can't work.

Lizzy, you're assuming that Amnirov cares about what you wrote. He doesn't. It's best to just ignore him and move on.

Alan

[mountainguy]

Lizzy, you're assuming that Amnirov cares about what you wrote. He doesn't. It's best to just ignore him and move on.

Yes, yes. I responded to him earlier in the thread as well. That was probably a violation of my fora mantra, but I didn't want to leave potentially harmful pedagogical advice unchallenged.

[cc_alan]

Lizzy, you're assuming that Amnirov cares about what you wrote. He doesn't. It's best to just ignore him and move on.

Yes, yes. I responded to him earlier in the thread as well. That was probably a violation of my fora mantra, but I didn't want to leave potentially harmful pedagogical advice unchallenged.

That's a very good point.

What about responding to a post like that one without directly acknowledging it or even quoting it in the response?

Alan

[venerable_bede]

that's the problem with people used to breaking students into groups, or teams, or having discussion time... they've lost the ability to lecture properly.

The other problem is assuming that lecturing is the only way to engage large groups... the students lose the ability to discuss material intelligently.

[post_functional]

According to a comprehensive study of everyone in the room in which I'm writing this, there is deep suspicion that love of lecturing strongly correlates with love of listening to oneself talk.

[spyzowin]

According to a comprehensive study of everyone in the room in which I'm writing this, there is deep suspicion that love of lecturing strongly correlates with love of listening to oneself talk.

According to a survey of Amnirovs, there is a deep suspicion that a dislike of lecturing strongly correlates with an inability to lecture.

[post_functional]

Ah, yes.  Amnirov=Amnirov.  The reflexive property of solipsism.

[kedves]

Does anyone have research findings to share that measure and analyze the effectiveness of lecture and discussion on student learning or on student evaluations?


In answer to the OP's question-- Leading informal discussions is easier with 20-30 students than with my typical class of 80-90 students, but all my classes include some discussion.  Some topics lend themselves to it more than others.  I have found that roughly the same percentage of students will participate regardless of class size unless I do something to force more uniform discussion.  In terms of encouraging discussion from the participators, nothing special needs to be done, just ask the questions. 

The other issue in the OP's question, though, is how to generate a basis for grading participation in a discussion exercise in a larger group.  I've done these with pairs and small-groups, up to 4 or 5 students.  It's easier if the seats can be moved but still possible with fixed auditorium seating.  You can walk around the room to consult and answer questions; that encourages less bold students to ask questions who wouldn't in front of the whole class.  There are problems with group work that don't exist with independent activity (e.g., free-riding). 

When I tried giving a participation grade based on voluntary participation at my current place, some students refused to participate because of shyness, not attitude or not-liking the course.  That happened regardless of the importance of the participation grade to their course grade.  In-class work has been a pain to grade, record, and listen to excuses and complaints about.  So now I don't do graded discussion or participation.  Students are willing to do the in-class activities without the grade, and the same percentage of students participate voluntarily as always.

[mountainguy]

FWIW, I don't think that lecture or discussion are mutually-exclusive instructional methods. Except for discussion-based classes at the graduate level, I've seen very few classes work with just one or the other. I typically intersperse lecture with a few how/why questions every 5-10 minutes and discussions with a few mini-lectures, usually toward the middle or the end of the class period.

I'm currently TA'ing a large class with 300+ students in which formally evaluating in-class discussion is simply not an option. it's given me some time to reflect on how I would deal with the scenario of an "in-between" class of 50 to 75 students. In-class writing isn't really part of the campus culture at PepsiU (students will whine constantly about wanting makeups), but a supplemental online component could potentially work here. I Further agree with Kedves that some students will still participate in discussion even if it's not a graded component, especially assuming the instructor uses well-prepared questions.

[spyzowin]

FWIW, I don't think that lecture or discussion are mutually-exclusive instructional methods. Except for discussion-based classes at the graduate level, I've seen very few classes work with just one or the other. I typically intersperse lecture with a few how/why questions every 5-10 minutes and discussions with a few mini-lectures, usually toward the middle or the end of the class period.

I'm currently TA'ing a large class with 300+ students in which formally evaluating in-class discussion is simply not an option. it's given me some time to reflect on how I would deal with the scenario of an "in-between" class of 50 to 75 students. In-class writing isn't really part of the campus culture at PepsiU (students will whine constantly about wanting makeups), but a supplemental online component could potentially work here. I Further agree with Kedves that some students will still participate in discussion even if it's not a graded component, especially assuming the instructor uses well-prepared questions.

Bravo! That is the right idea. Use Blackboard, and break the students into online groups. Use the online environment for discussion purposes.

[hiddendragon]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I make it rrreallly easy for my students.  I prepare the questions and usually hand them out the week before.  I'll try some of the techniques you're all suggesting, including making them write answers and report on different readings in small groups, and collecting and grading these notes afterward.

I CAN lecture and, in an ideal world where students follow me with the attention and devotion of disciples, I'd rather lecture because it is waaaayyyy easier to just stand in front of a class and talk for an hour 15 minutes than to try to solicit responses from dazed students, three fourth of who have not even done the readings, and engage them in thinking on their feet.  I do discussions with lectures in order to force students to keep up with the readings.  [I do not want to do discussions online because that would cut into my time too much--time which I don't have while trying to get tenure.  I'd have to monitor and read and respond outside of the class time and I doubt I'm being paid that much to devote that much time to my students]. Also, I do not just want to mumble on and on and then dismiss my students into the void of the universe without ever having to learn their names.  I think discussions force me to learn their names because I have to call on them.  I like teaching for this kind of personal connection with students anyway--learning their names and personalities.  I guess I had my early start at a teaching school and have found the interaction with professors to be the best and most memorable part  of my education.  I can't remember what they lectured on, but I can still recall points made in discussions and comments they make during discussions in class or during office hours.

[imawakenow]

I'll try some of the techniques you're all suggesting, including making them write answers and report on different readings in small groups, and collecting and grading these notes afterward.

I usually grade them pass/fail. If the student made an effort and wrote something reasonably coherent, I award all points. Over the semester, the variance comes with who is there and who is not on a regular basis.

For the small groups (2-4), I instruct the students to have one person take notes and then each student signs his or her name to the paper. Then I use the same grading scheme.

When a student writes something particularly insightful, I will occasionally summarize the comment at the beginning of the next session and then say something like, "This comment shows that the author understands not only the difference between underwater and above water basketweaving but also why we are studying the difference. Good job. Now, today..."

[this_is_my_username]

 parts of this might be useful

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQra4baNwP8

[professorchaos]

I'm new to this, and a little late to be jumping into this discussion, but I'm finding some of the suggestions helpful. I do ask questions and try to generate at least a few minutes of discussion in large lectures, but typically don't assign grades for this sort of thing. (If nothing else, the pause for questions seems a useful way to reset the students' 'attention clock'.) Once, though, I had a lecture class of 200 students with separate discussion groups scheduled to meet with TAs -- with participation marks attached -- but various problems arose that delayed the hiring of said TAs for a month. So, I kept the students in the lecture hall when they should have been off in their discussion groups, and handed out question sheets. I mingled as best as I could, and then collected the question sheets at the end of the class sessions. Everyone who signed a question sheet got a tick mark, and I posted selections of the answers on the course website just to convey the sense that the responses were being read and taken seriously. It was by no means an ideal solution, but it seemed to work well enough.

For a medium sized lecture class I have tried generating participation of a sort by having the students write summaries of the readings on note cards in the first five minutes of the class session, and then spend five minutes discussing a posted question about those readings with the people sitting nearest to them. The grade component was based merely on the note card summaries, though, not the quality of the ensuing discussion.

Has anyone ever used the 'clickers' I see advertised for large classes?