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[prytania3]

Now actually these classes offer some good material, but instead of offering it as a separate class, they ought to move the content into composition. It offers many interesting subjects to write about, and students  could knock off two birds with one stone. They could learn college success skills AND writing.

My 2 cents.

Didn't we just have a thread on this?  As someone who teaches freshman writing, the last thing I want is to become a version of homeroom as well.  Ick.

Yea, I was the one who started the thread, and I apologize for slightly hijacking. The content is actually pretty good. I was against it until I invesitgated further, and it would make excellent material for a comp class.

It has nothing to do with homeroom.

[mended_drum]

Now actually these classes offer some good material, but instead of offering it as a separate class, they ought to move the content into composition. It offers many interesting subjects to write about, and students  could knock off two birds with one stone. They could learn college success skills AND writing.

My 2 cents.

Didn't we just have a thread on this?  As someone who teaches freshman writing, the last thing I want is to become a version of homeroom as well.  Ick.

Yea, I was the one who started the thread, and I apologize for slightly hijacking. The content is actually pretty good. I was against it until I invesitgated further, and it would make excellent material for a comp class.

It has nothing to do with homeroom.

And I'm sorry for letting my hostility leak out.  Our freshman writing class, the first one, is not opt-outable--all freshman take it regardless of AP scores.  As a result, we are always getting things dumped into the course from the administration or Student Affairs because they can reach all of the freshmen that way.  Sometimes it's innocuous (remind freshman what a convocation is and urge them to attend), but other times significant class time gets borrowed by various individuals and organizations.  It's one of the few things I've decided to take a pretty consistent stand on--no more twenty minute slices carved out of my class!

[new_bus_prof]

And I'm sorry for letting my hostility leak out.  Our freshman writing class, the first one, is not opt-outable--all freshman take it regardless of AP scores.  As a result, we are always getting things dumped into the course from the administration or Student Affairs because they can reach all of the freshmen that way.  Sometimes it's innocuous (remind freshman what a convocation is and urge them to attend), but other times significant class time gets borrowed by various individuals and organizations.  It's one of the few things I've decided to take a pretty consistent stand on--no more twenty minute slices carved out of my class!

Hmmm... I have this same issue since I have graduating seniors. Anything Administration wants seniors to know. CMS auto-emailing has saved my class time.

[thrillcheese]

We have a class like that and it's required and graded, BUT if you flunk it, you don't have to retake it. That's changing now, i believe. Hope it helps us.

[jonesey]

You have to find ways to make this course relevant for your students.  Treating them like 4th graders won't do it.

(Really, Larry, you'd tell an adult student to "Sit down" when she left to answer the phone?  I've got a few issues with that:  1) She's an adult, and gets to do what she wants.  2) You have no way of knowing who's on the other end of that call.  Boyfriend?  Child care provider?  Job she has to leave class to go to because they're short?  I've never felt, as a professor, that I get to tell my students what's important in their lives.  If they bail on class, they bail, and their grade will show that.).

Deduct points for absence and tardiness; offer no make ups.  Get them to buy into your course.  They have to take it, so you actually have the advantage of a captive audience.

[doggrrl]

You have to find ways to make this course relevant for your students.  Treating them like 4th graders won't do it.

(Really, Larry, you'd tell an adult student to "Sit down" when she left to answer the phone?  I've got a few issues with that:  1) She's an adult, and gets to do what she wants.  2) You have no way of knowing who's on the other end of that call.  Boyfriend?  Child care provider?  Job she has to leave class to go to because they're short?  I've never felt, as a professor, that I get to tell my students what's important in their lives.  If they bail on class, they bail, and their grade will show that.).

Deduct points for absence and tardiness; offer no make ups.  Get them to buy into your course.  They have to take it, so you actually have the advantage of a captive audience.

I don't really want to teach like it's 4th grade, although I think Larry has a point. My style to to create an engaging class that students enjoy, which most of them do. Besides, I can't stop students from getting up and going to the bathroom, nor do I want to start doing that. This is an urban, open-admissions college in a major city. Most students are economically-disadvantaged students, and in they don't necessarily have to pay back their financial aid (as long as they are passing), so I'm not sure stressing the cost will help. Also many of these kids do not back down from a confrontation; I think it might be more trouble than it's worth to call them out in the middle of class for what may be having to use the bathroom.  

You guys have given me some great ideas!

[kedves]

I teach at a 4-year university and don't have anything like the problems you do, OP, but I do have a serious high-school-to-college transition challenge and more with some students than others.  I teach a hybrid intro-to-college/intro-to-discipline course.  We talk a lot throughout the semester about the differences between high school and college.  Some things you can try, some of which have been mentioned:  

"Why are you in college (or your program)?  What will keep you going?  What might make you stumble?  What will you do if that happens?" essays

Explain culture of college classroom and other spaces and the reasons for that, including your classroom (place for learning, every student has the right to focus without other students' causing distractions, etc.--make your choice, but don't negatively affect other students' choices to learn)

Specify and hold to what constitutes acceptable behavior--they can leave the room, but there is a cost and they can not re-enter; if there is an urgent issue, student needs to speak with me about it.  The other side of that is that I am very understanding and will do almost anything to work with a student who has a legitimate problem.  If it's an ordinary 50-minute class period, they should not need to go to the bathroom most days.

Overnight or brief in-class easy assignment due in first 5 minutes of each class period and not counted if student leaves early without permission

"Contribution to class" grade including participation and professionalism (need to specify)

Include in-class material on tests and test frequently so they get the message

Discuss concepts such as opportunity cost of time (they are paying for this time in lost wages, now and in the future if they do not finish a degree--even if they aren't paying their loan money back; if they have to re-take this class or take another class to make up the credits or improve their GPA, then the value of this time is decreased or lost; this is their opportunity to learn the information and that opportunity is lost if learning is not accomplished )

... and discuss investment in one's self with education as most financially important investment in cultural capital (explain as a type of capital along with social and financial capital) and look at the payout on that investment (link to Bureau of Labor Statistics "Education Pays" data on earnings and unemployment by educational attainment).  I talk about career choice as being as important to many people as income because I have many students who plan careers without high income (social worker, police officer), but the degree will give them options.

In terms of control of the classroom,  a lot can be gained by explaining why you are doing things the way you are.  I don't think you are treating them as grade-schoolers if you are cheerfully firm.  For me, body language, especially posture, and gaze are probably more important than what I say.  A standard thing to say in a given situation is backup, not usually needed but there just in case.

Good luck.

[alleyoxenfree]

Add to the syllabus that phones must be turned off, and pointedly turn yours off at the front of the room when you begin.

Add language to your syllabus about classroom behavior - whether they should ask if they need to use the bathroom, or leave early, for instance.  Do it now as an addendum to the syllabus.  My syllabi always state that changes to the syllabus may occur and will be announced in writing.

Chime to the using this as an occasion for teaching them about classroom behavior.  They presumably want to be successful in college (perhaps not true but a necessary postulate).  Make clear to them how and why, that this is disruptive to the class and to others trying to learn. 

[larryc]

Really, Larry, you'd tell an adult student to "Sit down" when she left to answer the phone?  I've got a few issues with that:  1) She's an adult, and gets to do what she wants.  2) You have no way of knowing who's on the other end of that call.  Boyfriend?  Child care provider?  Job she has to leave class to go to because they're short?  I've never felt, as a professor, that I get to tell my students what's important in their lives.  If they bail on class, they bail, and their grade will show that.

Would and have. Of course I have a way of knowing who is on the other end of the phone--I ask! "Is that an emergency? OK, grab your bag and go. Ask another student for the notes, see you Tuesday." And I certainly do get to tell students what they can for that tiny sliver of their lives that they are in  in my classroom. So do you.

The thing about trying to control student behavior through the syllabus and deducting points is that the ones who most need the help 1) never read the syllabus, 2) don't really follow their points or keep rack of their grades, or 3) even understand that it is their job to do this stuff. I too taught at an open admissions school for years and what I learned is that you can't tell students what the rules are, you have to show them, again and again.

So when students do something they should not you point it out and ask them not to do it. And you do so right away. It isn't turning your classroom into the 4th grade if you talk to them respectfully and like adults. Humor is good too. Mild embarrassment is an effective teaching tool. Sometimes you need more than mild, and if a student won't accept your rules you suggest that perhaps college, or at least your class, is not a good place for them.

The thing about running a tight and mutually respectful classroom is that you will get fewer drops and better evaluations. The vast majority of students want that educational experience. They are making a big financial sacrifice to be there and respent professors who cannot control the learning environment.
 

[jonesey]

Good points, Larry.  My apology for misunderstanding; I have a collegue who literally talks to his students as if it were high school. It's embarassing.

[doggrrl]

Again, good advice, Larry. Not to put too fine a point on it, but does that mean you don't allow students to use the bathroom, or that you make them ask in advance? And if they leave, you tell them they can't come back into the classroom? I'm not judging, I'm honestly wondering, because I foresee lots of complaints to the Dean if I do that.

[larryc]

If someone stands up to go I stop what I am doing and say "John! What's up?" John mumbles he has to use the bathroom. "Sure, go ahead. I thought maybe I was boring you!"

The thing is that after once or twice John does not have to go to the bathroom during class anymore. Neither does anyone else.

[caravaggiojr82]

If someone stands up to go I stop what I am doing and say "John! What's up?" John mumbles he has to use the bathroom. "Sure, go ahead. I thought maybe I was boring you!"

The thing is that after once or twice John does not have to go to the bathroom during class anymore. Neither does anyone else.

While my own "classroom demeanor" might differ somewhat, larry makes a point. And while I don't necessarily "call out" students when they do certain things--you know what, maybe I should. In the final analysis, running a tight ship does get you better evals, and the serious students do appreciate it. I do, however, think that telling them the rules (as opposed to showing them, per larry) in the syllabus can be effective as well. I've found it's especially effective when you tell them why the policies exist--in the general sense, I mean. I like to explain at the beginning of the semester, in plain English: these rules exist to help foster this kind of atmosphere, this kind of learning experience--i.e., they're not just the arbitrary do's and don'ts of a rule-crazy professor.

[larryc]

Excellent point, caravaggiojr82.

[caravaggiojr82]

Good points, Larry.  My apology for misunderstanding; I have a collegue who literally talks to his students as if it were high school. It's embarassing.

For me, that's the crux of it: I really, really try not to talk down to my students, and so I'm super-paranoid about stuff that might be construed as scolding. I wouldn't scold another adult--but I would respectfully ask her to discontinue her tomfoolery while I present material in class.