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[witness]

I referred briefly to my experiences in Turkey on one of the AUBiH threads.  Rather than get going there where discussion of Turkey does not belong, I have cut and pasted my contribution from there, plus a question that followed it....

I wrote:

The dept (at Bilkent) I was in has shrunk from 20 odd faculty in 2000 to 4 now.  No new hires since 2000 and natural wastage as a means of running it down.  I will be surprised if it still exists at all in five year's time.   Money. Desire to re-locate to a different city.  More generally, and more helpfully (I hope!), anyone considering Turkey should not consider any institutions other than Bilkent, Koc and Sabanci.  All three are real universities that would pass muster beside good US State universities.  The rest, you really don't want to go there.  You really don't.  Anyway, this thread is about Bosnia and a Bosnian institution.  If they advertised I'd apply, if they made me an offer, I'd take it.  Suck it and see.  My main point in my previous post was; if you step out beyond North America and Western Europe, be ready for pretty much anything.


Humanista wrote:

What about Middle East Technical Univeristy in Ankara? Same story?

My reply:

METU is a state sector university, which means they have no money and, compared with the private universities, far fewer foreign faculty.  It is possible for state universities to hire foreigners and some do, but the bureaucratic process of validating the appointment involves three government ministries and takes a very long time; up to a year in many cases.  The salaries are low and NOT enough to live on in Turkey.  In the humanities, METU (along with Bogazici University in Istanbul) has the best students in Turkey in humanities and social sciences depts.  I have taught grads of both on MA courses and they are outstandingly good.  I mean that in an international and not just a Turkish context.  Friends and colleagues of mine who have or have had positions in private universities taught grad courses at both, just so as to be able to teach some good students for a change, but from a financial point of view, unless you have private wealth, a full time appointment at METU and other Turkish state universities is not really an option.

I will be happy to answer here any questions about working in Turkey in the university system that anyone may have.

[humanista]

Thanks, Witness! That is a great answer. It's odd that a place like METU chooses not to pay its employees a living wage.

I wonder if I might ask about one more, Dokuz Eylul University in Izmir? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide!

[witness]

Regarding, Dokuz Eylul (9th September) much the same as what I said about METU and Bogazici would apply, except that they don't have such good students.  Anyone looking at Turkey would be advised not to look beyond Bilkent, Koc and Sabanci, as I said in an earlier post.  There are the only institutions that are interested in establishing some international profile, have the money to compete on that level and the desire to be players on an international academic stage, rather than just to be 'big in Turkey.'  Those institutions that aspire only to the latter status are not really setting the bar all that high.  The state system is a different gig and the problem is no funds for anything.  Turkish academics in the system generally have some form of private wealth; without that it's not a feasible career option, as the salaries are so low. 

The institutions to be avoided at all cost are Fatih, Beykent, Yeditepe, Dogus, Kultur, Aydin, and frankly all the other private universities in Istanbul, and Atalim and Cankaya in Ankara are pretty poor too.

So, what are the problems?  Well, the same sort of stuff as reported about AUBiH, Korea, Japan, and various places in the Middle East, on other threads on here.  I have seen some truly shameful sh*t go down here over the years, in terms of the skullduggery that goes on institutionally and systemically, and in campaigns against various individuals who fell foul of some egomaniac Chair or Dean, and all that you need to do that is fail to suck up to them enough, or to show quite enough enthusiasm for their latest insane scheme.

[lerasmus]

Dokuz Eylul has some good emerging programs, however, and there are some highly talented students there. What witness said about the pay is accurate, though. Istanbul Technical should be added to the list of good state schools that underpay...

I'd concur wholeheartedly about Fatih, Yeditepe, and Dogus, but I have friends at Kultur who have easy gigs (teaching 1-2 days a week and little work even on those 2 days) that pay ok and they enjoy that. Think of it as adjuncting and one has more realistic expectations...

Foreign faculty should be aware that it is nearly impossible (as of the last 5-6 years) to get tenure at a state university if you are not a Turkish citizen. If you are a foreign national and hired on tenure track (kadrolu) that can be revoked or altered at any time by the rector of the university, and this happened to several colleagues of mine a couple years ago.

[witness]

Regarding Kultur, I have a friend who was there for a year.  He had a torrid time.  Conference funding withheld, despite a contractual commitment on the part of the university to make it available, a salary significantly lower that what had been agreed during the interview and appointment process, a bizarre regime in which academic staff are required to be in their offices fourdays a week from nine to five, including during the summer months, and which was enforced with despotic glee, and much else besides.  Real horrorshow stuff.  His description of the place was 'not a university, but a cross between a high school, a minor government ministry and a retirement home for former employees of Istanbul University.

[witness]

Innocent

I can't comment from experience on the uni's in Cyprus, but from what I have seen, on a couple of conference visits to EMU back in the day, and what I have heard from friends and acquaintances, your comments on another thread struck me as being fair and accurate.  The rapidity of foreign staff turnover tells its own story.  Then there is the problem of being in so isolated and barely visible a location as Northern Cyprus.  Nice place for a weekend, but you wouldn't wanna live there.

[sencer]

There is no point going to Turkish state-universities (Bogazici or METU equivalent) unless you are a top academician in your field who would like to but didn't have the opportunity to work at Ivy league universities in US. I don't see why a Turkish university would hire an assistant professor with little reputation unless you work on Turkish history (in fact there are a lot of grants available for this purpose).

The best option for senior faculty to teach in Turkey would be to have graduate students from these universities who would later hook you up with bogazici/metu faculty and arrange you to teach in Turkey for summer school, when the pay cheques are equivalent to US standards. (many of us in US did this)

Why do state-universities not pay enough? Firstly, because universities do not charge tuition in fall and spring, and research council pays good money for your publications, and many university professors have good connections to industry which pays them off, for advising, etc.

If you are in humanities, or if you are an ESL teacher, I'd recommend to look elsewhere, or apply to private high schools in Turkey.

If you are not up to the challenge of following a conservative European lifestyle in a 99% Muslim country (if you are gay, there are places for you to hang out but again be ready for verbal abuses) and if you are going to be annoyed with the call to pray as early as 6 am, or if you are cheap to bargain for $2 at a supermarket, or if you have not been to anywhere else except for conferences, then please do not go to Turkey.

Turks are very romantic people in general; passionate about their country and proud of their history. You have to be sensible in general.

What most Turks try is to welcome any foreigners so they would talk nice after they leave.

A very famous turkish saying: "Ekmegini yedigin yere kufretme"

Just don't destroy the magic if you are not willing to be a part of it. Is it objective? No, but again this is what romantism is about.

[viewpoetry]

Regarding, Dokuz Eylul (9th September) much the same as what I said about METU and Bogazici would apply, except that they don't have such good students.  Anyone looking at Turkey would be advised not to look beyond Bilkent, Koc and Sabanci, as I said in an earlier post.  There are the only institutions that are interested in establishing some international profile, have the money to compete on that level and the desire to be players on an international academic stage, rather than just to be 'big in Turkey.'  Those institutions that aspire only to the latter status are not really setting the bar all that high.  The state system is a different gig and the problem is no funds for anything.  Turkish academics in the system generally have some form of private wealth; without that it's not a feasible career option, as the salaries are so low. 

The institutions to be avoided at all cost are Fatih, Beykent, Yeditepe, Dogus, Kultur, Aydin, and frankly all the other private universities in Istanbul, and Atalim and Cankaya in Ankara are pretty poor too.

So, what are the problems?  Well, the same sort of stuff as reported about AUBiH, Korea, Japan, and various places in the Middle East, on other threads on here.  I have seen some truly shameful sh*t go down here over the years, in terms of the skullduggery that goes on institutionally and systemically, and in campaigns against various individuals who fell foul of some egomaniac Chair or Dean, and all that you need to do that is fail to suck up to them enough, or to show quite enough enthusiasm for their latest insane scheme.

[lzbth]

I agree: Yeditepe University is a joke!  All of the classroom walls and desks are covered with test answers.  Cheating is the norm and tolerated/expected among the students.  The administration pays lip service to a hard line on cheating, but Turkish faculty completely ignore it. 

The Dean of English Education, Dr. Ayse Akyel, is not to be trusted, and she treats her faculty like misbehaving children to be publicly berated at each faculty meeting.  They provide no assistance with acquiring the visa/work permit nor with finding suitable housing.  Contracts are not issued until an approval process of approximately 4 months is completed, and this is not explained to foreign faculty prior to their arrival.  No such thing as tenure exists, and getting paychecks/travel reimbursements may require going in person to the HR department on a monthly basis.

The campus, however, is absolutely gorgeous, but rapidly deteriorating.

[crkens]

Outside of American University in Bosnia, surely Istanbul Bilgi is at the top of the  universities to be avoided list.  It suffers from every imaginable ill, and it is often difficult to tell which group is more useless, students or Turkish faculty.   

[lerasmus]

From personal experience, never ever believe anyone from Bilgi that tells you they're interested in hiring you to start a program in  ___insert the name of new department here___. I've been approached by them now off and on for 6 years to found a program but there is no money for salaries (which I know through other contacts at Bilgi) and no budget for administrative or operating costs. Yet, they apparently have a shiny new building for the department, one that will probably never be occupied.