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[anon99]

I am not sure where to post this, but this seems like the most appropriate.  I have a grad student who is a nice guy, but does the bare minimum and academically is average.  They think they know the information and come across as confident, but when you ask questions, you quickly realize they don't know it.  I've already told other students to come to me if they have questions or ask specific students.  This student barely passed their comps, but remain clueless (or don't want to face reality) as to their abilities.  They are now talking about starting to look for postdocs in labs which are totally outside their area of expertize.  I know the people reading the applications would probably bin their file, but they seem to get really frustrated when they get rejection letters.  There are some areas where they'd probably do a good job.  At the moment I am opting for the STFU, but am not sure if this is the best approach.  I want them to do the best that they can.  Any suggestions?

[tenured_feminist]

Well, first off you might suggest counseling for their multiple personality disorder. (/snark; sorry, but noun/pronoun agreement in number errors are fingernails-on-chalkboard to me.)

Seriously? If you are this student's advisor, sit down with him and have a chat about marshalling one's resources and good will among recommenders and potential supervisors/postdoc labs. He should be directed to apply for things for which he is a reasonably good fit. Your post suggests that you believe such opportunities exist, so encourage him in those directions.

If you're not his advisor, I'd suggest dropping a note to his advisor to let the advisor know that the student's not doing himself any good here, but then let the advisor handle it or not.

If the guy is smart, he'll figure out his own limits at some point along the way. Grad school is usually pretty good for this.

[laurel_knx]

I think you should definitely advise the student on how to focus his job hunting efforts. I'm job hunting myself, and I have agonized over how far I can stretch my credentials in applying for jobs. It's really confusing for newbies, and the advice I have been able to get was so welcomed.

You don't necessarily have to give him a total reality check (I think we all need apply a little optimistically this year), but if he's missing good opportunities while chasing unrealistic ones, help him out!

[bread_pirate_naan]

They are now talking about starting to look for postdocs in labs which are totally outside their area of expertize.  I know the people reading the applications would probably bin their file, but they seem to get really frustrated when they get rejection letters.  There are some areas where they'd probably do a good job.  At the moment I am opting for the STFU, but am not sure if this is the best approach.  I want them to do the best that they can.  Any suggestions?

I have never thought of STFU as a pedagogical technique, but as a survival skill.

You should tell them.  Or, you could write a lovely handout about wise application for the whole department.  I learned how to get a grant app binned by attending a workshop on not getting a grant binned (offered by another dept).  The handout was great.  Remarkably, there are places where students are being taught things one needs to know to succeed.  In groups, even. You can work at one of those places.

[larryc]

Of course you need to tell him--and in no uncertain terms. He might need a metaphorical smack up the side of the head with a clue stick, and it is your job to give it to him.

[frogfactory]

I agree with the above.  It's your job to tell him.  SingTFU in this case is dereliction of your duties as an advisor.

[anon99]

Thanks.  I have a meeting with him next week and will talk to him.  TF hopefully I got the nouns/pronouns right this time ;)

[ptarmigan]

I'm just an undergraduate f***-up, but I'm sure your grad student knows exactly what is going on.  When you talk to him, he promises to do better, and he means it, but then he fails to execute because he has no self-discipline.  He makes whatever excuses he can to scrape by. 

More talking won't help - it'll just be the same thing over again, as you know.  You should still talk to him, but be prepared to watch him fail.

[velvis]

Sounds like he needs what some (namely the writers of Grosse Pointe Blank) refer to as Shakabuku - or a swift spiritual kick to the head.

Just remember that you still need to be kind - break him down and build him back up...don't  stop after the stfu.

[anon99]

My problem is I am too nice at times and afraid to say something negative.  I have no problems constructively criticizing their work.  I am at the point where I honestly know I should have been earlier, where I don't care if he gets upset and I need to do what is best for him, and my sanity.  I did actually call in another student, who needed a talking to, and had a serious talk with him.  No more SingTFU.  Oh and yes I do have a number of truly wonderful grad students who I am tempted to clone.

[kraken]

Hey, I know a half dozen of those!

Be harsh.  Be mean.  Save him from a life of frustration as the rejections pile on.  If he hasn't figured out by now that he's clueless, then he has no business in the field.