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[gradegg]

This is my first post, although I've been reading the fora on a regular basis for some time. I'm in a new department, and find myself in need some outside-of-the-department perspective.

Several students I've met have talked about "not deserving" the less-than-A grades they receive in a course. This is usually accompanied by complicated reason for why a professor had to give them a grade that didn't match their performance. Here is the complicated scenario I've been told about that troubles me the most:

Small graduate seminar. One student is inadequately prepared for the subject matter. This student does not attend regularly, arrives late, and does crummy work. At the end of the semester, professor tells a somewhat better student that his B+ is due to a need to create a bell curve in the grades so that the department can give the inadequately prepared student a grade low enough that the department can eventually prevent him from continuing in the program.

Does this really happen? Do professors actually talk that frankly about the politics of grading with graduate students? Is it important for me to stay abreast of "news" like this? How can I keep my nose clean while still knowing what I need to know?

[imawakenow]

Small graduate seminar. One student is inadequately prepared for the subject matter. This student does not attend regularly, arrives late, and does crummy work. At the end of the semester, professor tells a somewhat better student that his B+ is due to a need to create a bell curve in the grades so that the department can give the inadequately prepared student a grade low enough that the department can eventually prevent him from continuing in the program.

Can I envision a scenario where a professor would have this type of conversation? Yes.

Do I think that it likely happened? Somewhat doubtful. It would be highly unprofessional for the faculty member to discuss a graduate student's grade with another graduate student. Lowering one student's grade simply to provide justification for canning another student seems odd also.

As far as what you can do: When someone tells you a story like that, simply nod and say, "Interesting." Then do well in your courses.

If it's not clear what you need to do to earn the grade that you want, visit the professor during office hours. If it becomes a consistent problem, speak to your adviser and/or DGS.

[bread_pirate_naan]

Does this really happen?

No.

[tinyzombie]

At the end of the semester, professor tells a somewhat better student that his B+ is due to a need to create a bell curve in the grades so that the department can give the inadequately prepared student a grade low enough that the department can eventually prevent him from continuing in the program.

This is a violation of FERPA.

[kedves]

I'm in a new department, and find myself in need some outside-of-the-department perspective.

Several students I've met have talked about "not deserving" the less-than-A grades they receive in a course. This is usually accompanied by complicated reason for why a professor had to give them a grade that didn't match their performance. Here is the complicated scenario I've been told about that troubles me the most...

Some of the ways you phrase things makes me ask, Are you a faculty member? 

The story sounds strange, but strange things happen.  It's a violation of principles of statistics, not only FERPA.   

If you are a student, I wouldn't worry about it unless the grade weirdness happens to you or you have first-hand knowledge of this sort of indiscretion.  Then I would ask my advisor or the director of graduate studies about it.  If you are a faculty member, I am not sure what you can or should do about the past event at this point.

[alleyoxenfree]

If you are a grad student and you have any choice about your courses, you could make sure prior to taking a class that you know what the prof's grading policies are.  Usually, their former syllabi are on file in the department office, or they are willing to give you a copy.  If they are going to force a curve of some kind, it should be stated on the syllabus.

Otherwise, your grade should be based on your work alone.  Do professor's look at all the grades to see if they were unduly kind to one and unduly harsh to another?  Sometimes, if the subject matter involves grading papers vs. tests, or essay tests vs. problem sets with a single solution.

But this sound strange, and unlikely that the prof would discuss other students' grades that directly.  If they do, they're in trouble, and if you are a prof, you should keep your distance, set up a fair grading system yourself, tell any concerned students to see their advisor or look into the grade appeal process, and stay out of it otherwise.

[gradegg]

Some of the ways you phrase things makes me ask, Are you a faculty member? 

I'm a graduate student.

I'm just a bit unsettled by how volatile some aspects of department life seem. My general impression is that students who are conscientious and work hard have no problems getting ahead in their career here. Probably I should rely on that impression and take the stories I hear with a grain of salt.

[the_honey_badger]

I thought the craziest things I'd ever heard in my life were those I heard from other grad students in my program.  Once I got a t-t job in a place with a large graduate program I learned that the "crazy" was not confined to my alma mater.  Everyone has a "theory" or a "rationalization"  and they are *always* alleged to be based on super-secret inside info from some faculty member.  90% of this is completely invented, the other 10% is a mix of supposition based on random remarks reinterpreted and even the stupid comments of some unprofessional faculty member.  Who can tell which is which? What you can tell is who among your classmates is too tied up in this nonsense and who remains above it and lets their work speak for them.

My advice to ambitious new students is to find someone ahead of them in the program who is *serious.*  Someone who doesn't have grand conspiracy theories, supposed "inside tracks" to information and whose focus is on their work and building a professional c.v./networks.  Those people are going somewhere but they also are realistic about taking responsibility when they perform in a less than perfect way. They are the ones who are going somewhere. Those who promote dark, elaborate theories?  They are the guys who are still abd after 10 years and now have excuses as to why they either can't finish or can't "get a break."

[grasshopper]

My advice to ambitious new students is to find someone ahead of them in the program who is *serious.*  Someone who doesn't have grand conspiracy theories, supposed "inside tracks" to information and whose focus is on their work and building a professional c.v./networks. 

This is excellent advice. Every department has that one grad student who is excited to be sitting at the grown up table, and never really gets over the thrill of being "on the inside." Every piece of knowledge about faculty politics fuels the excitement. But it's got to be shared, because otherwise, how would anybody know that s/he was in on the secret workings of the department?

[alleyoxenfree]

Some of the ways you phrase things makes me ask, Are you a faculty member? 

I'm a graduate student.

I'm just a bit unsettled by how volatile some aspects of department life seem. My general impression is that students who are conscientious and work hard have no problems getting ahead in their career here. Probably I should rely on that impression and take the stories I hear with a grain of salt.

Yes, you have the right approach.  Keep everything in mind, the fact that others seem to be doing fine and that these stories are probably rumors.  Also, that the unsettling, volatile aspects of a department can be a good introduction to professional life in the academy.  Watch and learn, reality-test rumors, see what makes a good department or bad, and you will have a leg up in job hunting, where you will need to try to avoid toxic departments, whether your current one is genuinely one or not. 

[helpful]

As far as I know, we don't use the bell curve in grading graduate students. We treat them as adults, which they are.  As for undergraduates, well, the bell curve is often used.

However, your example, OP, doesn't make sense. Why would an otherwise A student be graded lower so that an otherwise C student is given a D or an F?

[imawakenow]

My general impression is that students who are conscientious and work hard have no problems getting ahead in their career here. Probably I should rely on that impression and take the stories I hear with a grain of salt.

This. Bold = x2.