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[farm_boy]

FYI:  It's never too late to finish a college degree:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35086812/ns/us_news-life/?gt1=43001

[ellerton]

I totally sympathize with you. I am much older than you. I am an adjunct with a social situation not too unlike you. I have lost out on numerous jobs and possible relationships that I lost track of/
 Do not expect therapists or others, especially outside academia to understand. They will not. (But they will still offer useless advice) Their life experience is so very different from yours and mine that they have no idea or clue. They have a marriage or something like it. They are younger, no true angst. They do not know that depression is not merely a state of mind but it can be a way of life itself.
As Marx said about your job, the more you put into it and the more alienated you become. A nugget of truth to that sometimes.
I recommend that you try to reinvent yourself in a very different direction, something you have never done before. It is not too late! Do something outside academia which requires little money and no social contacts or friends. It may fail, but if you really enjoy it a lot, it is well worth it. This is what I did and it has added new meaning to my life.   

[guinness4life]

A) You sound depressed.

Consider getting meds. It's happened to a lot of us. Myself included at one point in life. It's medical. Nothing to be ashamed of. Affects something like 10% of the total population at some point. Try to cut down on the negative self-talk, too. IME it'll help. Exercise if you don't.

B) Take stock in what you have. Not what you don't or what your friends do.

What your colleagues value the most is not necessarily what an interviewer will e.g. your demonstrated mastery of factor analysis or comparative examination of Ramon Llull's electoral counting methods is likely to baffle the layperson, even if it impresses your colleagues. However, the interviewer may highly value the skills you used in achieving these accomplishments, especially if you can explain how this can help them.

You have a PhD. FYI, that nets you at least GS-11 in a federal job (56,411 base BEFORE locality increase), which is probably more than you were making in the academy, plus benefits. You also have public speaking and teaching experience from teaching. You can do research. No one outside the academy cares about your publications, so no sweat. No, really. I'm not kidding. Stop jumping up and down.

How's your stat background? There are a variety of short-term (1-2 year contract) statistic-y positions open in the census where they're hiring everybody with a pulse (and a stat background), might want to check it out if Cronbach's Alpha gets you going in the morning. At least while you figure what you're doing job-wise.

You don't have a wife and kids? Re-frame. You have mobility. You have more economic freedom. That means you don't have to pay for Johnny's private school and 40k/yr college. It also means you can move pretty much anywhere for a job.

C) People outside the Academy will get this

The economy sucks. You'll find you're not alone in looking for a new job late in life. There are plenty of people outside the academy that get this. You're changing careers. You'll find there are lots of support groups at churches, temples, mosques etc (or probably the secular humanists too if you prefer that) for that kind of thing. Changing careers later in life is not unique to the academy - especially in this economy.

Case in point - I had another (better-paying) job lined up in my field that just dried up (along with its state funding) in the fall. Now, a career in the state police is on the table at this point if they call. Not what I expected out of life, but you make due. Hell, I hear they have a good gym. I know people that were in real estate and on the street last year that are working at Walmart as greeters now.

D) Books

Some self-help books are pretty decent. I'm reading this one now - "Self-promotion for Introverts". Pretty good. Might want to give it a shot. Dale Carnegie (How to Win Friends and Influence People) is a perennial favorite of mine, too. Instinctively I'd rather be sitting on the couch reading a book or working out in the dungeon, but well you know have to interact and all that.

The classic book on the job hunt is "What Color is you Parachute?" Personally, I didn't find helpful, but some people swear by it. I prefer the Big 5 and MBTI (there really is no science behind the MBTI or Jungian types, but for some reason I found the books vaguely useful) type of books e.g. "Do What You Are?"

Your mileage may vary.

Hope things work out!

[kearao]

I'm in a situation quite similar to yours, and for similar reasons.   As one of the contributors to this thread pointed out, there are a lot more folks in this situation than you might imagine.   

The first, second and third suggestions I would like to make are that you drop the word "loser."  To me the L-word is pretty much like the N-word, and it should have no place in civilized conversation.  It is just an extremely derogatory way of classifying people according to a characteristic that they probably have little control over.  It has no ascertainable relevance to character or intrinsic worth.  It's invalidating and de-humanizing.   Like the N-word, it just shouldn't be used.  About anyone, and least of all about yourself.   

You sound like someone who has basically had a lot of bad luck, and hasn't always had the social and familial and other resources to overcome that.  That's a pity, but it's not a cause for shame.  Not if we are the genuine humanists that we claim and hope to be.   

My fourth suggestion would be to find a niche where you can make a modest living without too much stress.  Could you work in a library?  a bookstore?   could you set up a few websites?  teach yourself web design?   

If you accept my first, second and third suggestions, I believe that will help you quite a lot right there.   And if you start to re-define yourself in a more positive, less condemnatory way, I hope you will be able to think more openly and self-supportively about a good direction for the future.   

P.S.  A friend of mine who once appeared to have a shining future due to his excellent intellect bounced around for years before he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.  At one point this Westinghouse finalist and Swarthmore grad was living in an abandoned building in New York City.   After being diagnosed, and after a longish period of adjusting his meds, he was able to assemble the credentials for being a computer technician.  He is now in charge of all the computers at a mid-size municipal library.  He makes a decent, if modest, living, enjoys reading and traveling, and on the whole is doing fairly well.   

[educatedfool]

I read a book a few years ago, wish I could recall the title, but it was basically portraits of older people who had started their careers in their 50s and all gone on to achieve fantastic things, and I'm not talking about fame/money, but in terms of humanity. In fact, the book stated that most great things had been done by people after they turned 50. Sorry I can't provide a link.

If you are depressed, stay away from the anti-depression meds, all they do is turn you into someone with no emotions at all (second-hand info from friends).

I would highly recommend getting yourself out and about into the wilderness. Even if you live in an urban area, there will be bits and pieces of the natural world to be found in parks and such. Doing so will help you reclaim that part of you that has nothing to do with societal norms and expectations, and you can hopefully regain a joy in just being alive. Get a camera and take up photography, it's a wonderful way to connect with a world that expects nothing from you in terms of anything but exploring your creativity. Best of luck.

[farm_boy]

educated fool, now that's the best post I've seen around here in a long time!  Thanks.

[educatedfool]

Thanks, it's advice I follow a lot. People ask me what church I go to, and I tell them the Church of the Holy Redrock (I live in redrock country/Utah). I try to go daily, and I feel it when I don't.  :)

[educatedfool]

Hey Farm_Boy, do you think that woman you posted the story about above would've lived longer if they hadn't given her the degree? I mean, you know, not dying until she'd reached all her goals and all?

Maybe they shouldn't have given it to her.   :)

[rthibode]

I don't know if you're depressed or not. If so, I do hope you take seriously the advice to try medication, meditation, mindfulness, wilderness, exercise, and therapy.

I do think you lack perspective on the amount of social capital you have. If you'd like to meet a whole lot of people who are starting life in their 50s or later, you can find plenty at any AA meeting. Some of them even have to do it without (gasp!) a Ph.D.

Sorry, that's probably harsh. But seriously, the skills you have acquired along with your Ph.D. are very marketable, even if your age and lack of paid experience is a substantial hindrance. You won't be able to compete with people who have followed the usual path. If you are in a big city with tons of other people with graduate degrees, your resume will be at the bottom of the pile.

If you are able to move for work, consider going somewhere unpopular, like a native reserve or the far north. There may be less competition, and you can get something on your resume.

Any updates since your last post?

[serrolleno]

I don't see you as a loser at all.  You obviously are intelligent, insightful, and write well.  You also have a sense of dry humor about your condition, which many other academic-types I'll bet can relate to.

I have found that "successful" people, while they help humanity in general, and achieve a lot, are not particularly nice or open.  With many exceptions, they tend to be "busy" climbing the ladder.  They have time only for their immediate circle of friends and loved ones, or those who can help them climb ot do something for them in some way.  When society gets enough people like this, it can deteriorate.

I look at success differently.  Did I try my best?  Do I always keep myself aware that even the simplest acts to strangers can really benefit them in ways that I can never know.  Do I do good for the goodness of it, or do I practice what one Chronicler called the "shameless art of self-promotion"?

What really impressed me was the number of readers who cared enough about you to spend their time offering you advice and even good cheer by their humor.  They get no "credit" for this on their cvs.  They are probably busy.  But they cared enough about a stranger to offer help to somebody hurting.

You became a blessing to them.  You brought out the best in them.  I have the feeling that you have a lot to offer, and that your journey can help others.  Reading what you wrote certainly helped me!

Best wishes to you.  You are loved, I'm sure of it.