next »

[ewiger_student]

I am a newcomer to the forums, and noticed that there was a recent post inquiring about doctoral program in music ed.  However, I thought my situation was unique enough to start a new thread (feel free to let me know if I'm doubling up what another music grad has discussed!).

My UG is a B.Mus. in performance. Though I took music ed classes, as well as a healthy number of graduate music classes, I didn't end up finishing the music ed. creds or the music master's at my UG institution. Ironically enough, that's because I took a K-12 teaching gig instead. Over the next couple of years, I did do a master's in teaching--earning my full teaching credentials (with a music endorsement) through graduate preparation while teaching full-time.

For some time, I've wondered whether having a master's that was not music-specific would bar me from entering a doctoral music program--particularly music ed. and/or conducting. I know at some schools it is indeed a non-starter (at least according to the requirements listed on the websites). However, given that I'll have under my belt several years of music ed. experience, a strong academic record (3.9+ GPA for both degrees), and a high level of musicianship/scholarship, I'm less convinced that this would be as much of a barrier. Any input in this regard would be welcome!

My real question, though, is what moves I should consider making. I would love to do a doctorate in music ed, though I'm interested in a program that places practical application and artistic advancement at a level that is at least equal to research. With passions for teaching as well as conducting, I would like to ultimately find a position to include orchestral conducting, music teacher preparation, and possibly even teaching in the core theory sequence. I can see where earning a DMA in conducting would limit my ability to apply for positions heavy on the music ed. aspect. However, I can also see how taking a PhD in music ed could potentially cause me to be too far removed from the applied side.

Right now, a viable option seems to be Boston's online DMA. I have read some of the posts cautioning against this--citing the absence of TA or GA experience as damning to future higher ed prospects. However, I'm attracted to it because it emphasizes both serious research as well as hands-on practicability. Equally attractive is the ability to maintain my full-time position. My wife and I have a beautiful infant, and I'll be the only income earner for a while, so dropping the job for a couple of years of on-campus study (even with an assistantship/tuition waiver) is not exactly an easy option right now. On the other hand, however, the thought of plunging into tens of thousands more in debt, as would likely be the case with BU, is not altogether appealing either. Nor is the thought of being absent in everything but flesh while I balance full-time teaching (including performances) with doctoral study. I understand the latter scenario is par for grad-study-with-family even without the 40+-hour workweek. But I'd really prefer to subject them to as little of this as possible while pursuing doctoral study.

And here you have a snapshot of my dilemma... any constructive thoughts are much appreciated!

[voxprincipalis]

With passions for teaching as well as conducting, I would like to ultimately find a position to include orchestral conducting, music teacher preparation, and possibly even teaching in the core theory sequence.[/i][/i] I can see where earning a DMA in conducting would limit my ability to apply for positions heavy on the music ed. aspect. However, I can also see how taking a PhD in music ed could potentially cause me to be too far removed from the applied side.

It is hard for me to imagine a scenario in which someone with an online DMA in Music Ed would be a viable, competitive job candidate for either an orchestral conducting or a music theory position. This is due to a couple of reasons:

1. Lack of respect in the field for online degrees in general, especially for any position you are seeking that has an applied component. This may or may not change as time goes by.

2. In many schools, the divides between Music Ed, applied music teaching, and academic areas are much deeper than you may be thinking. Most programs will want to hire an orchestra conductor who has advanced degrees in conducting and as much experience as possible conducting at the university and professional level. An online doctorate will provide you with no such experience, and your K-12 conducting experience is also not likely to go very far in this search. You might want to look up the CVs of orchestral conducting professors at a range of universities and see what kind of training and experience they have.

3. If you have not yet studied the MVL job listings, it would be a good idea to do so, so that you see what the usual assortments of job duties are. It would be nice if we could say, "I'd like a position in which I can do X, Q, and F," but you will probably find that the majority of positions are "X + W," "Q + D," or "F, A, and L." X and F may not appear together in any job ad, and that may mean you need to choose either X or F to pursue. While many music schools nowadays are looking for candidates who can teach something beyond the narrow field of specialization, the options are not so much "smorgasbord" as "prix-fixe." I think this is probably less of an obstacle than points #1 and #2 above, but you may find that the things you hope to unite live more often than not on divergent paths.

Just out of curiosity, what's your BM in?

VP

[choirguy]

Are you in a location where you could do an in-the-seat masters in music education?  Many of those programs offer evening, weekend, and summer classes that can be completed while you are still teaching full-time.  Once you have the M.M. in hand, you are are a viable candidate for PhD or DMA programs. 

While my degree is DMA in Choral Conducting, I am a strong advocate for PhD in Choral or Instrumental Education.  Most schools, except for the major music factories, expect their choral and instrumental conductors to be able to teach music education methods courses and also to supervise student teachers.  The teaching credentials get you in the door.  Your skill as a conductor seals the deal.

Send me a private message if you would like to discuss this further off-line. 

Good luck   

[lightningstrike]

For some time, I've wondered whether having a master's that was not music-specific would bar me from entering a doctoral music program--particularly music ed. and/or conducting. I know at some schools it is indeed a non-starter (at least according to the requirements listed on the websites). However, given that I'll have under my belt several years of music ed. experience, a strong academic record (3.9+ GPA for both degrees), and a high level of musicianship/scholarship, I'm less convinced that this would be as much of a barrier. Any input in this regard would be welcome!

However, I can also see how taking a PhD in music ed could potentially cause me to be too far removed from the applied side.

Getting into a conducting program:

It is more important that you have a track record of professional accomplishment and you really impress at your conducting audition/interview/testing.  The paper trail of degrees that you own will have secondary importance if you have a track record as a conductor and you can demonstrate that you CAN conduct.

DMA vs PhD as it pertains to the applied arts:

If you are worried that getting a PhD (as opposed to a DMA) will limit your job opportunities on the applied side, just remember that musicians (applied artists) are not like AHA/MLA/STEM/AMS types.  If you can demonstrate that you have mastered the craft and can teach it (either through audition and/or professional experience) no music school will give a hoot if you have a PhD, DMA, or just a Masters (in the case of the big-time music schools and traditional conservatories).  The type of degree you have is especially irrelevant if you can recruit students, draw audiences, and raise the reputation/profile of the school.

The BU On-line DMA in Education:

As for the BU on-line degree, I only recommend it to people who want to keep their day job and have legit opportunities to develop their musicianship and establish a professional track record without the traditional conservatory support structure for establishing a career (i.e., master classes, ensembles, networking, competitions, etc.)  This is very hard to do.

[ewiger_student]

Happy New Year! And thank you for your responses so far. I'll begin to respond to some of what you have mentioned/asked.

As I mentioned in my OP, my undergraduate degree is in performance (violin, to be specific). My master's is an M.A. in teaching that I completed to earn my teaching creds during my first two years of K-12 employment. Though it came with a music endorsement, it was completely housed within the school of education. The last thing I want to do, choirguy is to invest in another master's (time and, if part-time, money). As I mentioned before, I took a considerable number of graduate-level music courses. By this spring, I'll have logged three years as a K-12 teacher (in all likelihood, it will have been at least four years by the time I begin a doctorate). My sense is that my qualifications (coursework, experience, skill set) make me a comparable to colleagues who have earned the M.M./M.M.E.

VP's point about the divergence of the sub-disciplines is well taken. However, my ideal higher ed position would be in an institution similar to the one where I completed my bachelor's. It was a mid-sized, comprehensive university with a focus on teaching and teacher training. Almost every music faculty member I can think of overlapped; many were former K-12 teachers who taught courses in the music ed sequence along with their specialty--or taught in another specialty along with their music ed position. I realize that this would still not necessarily be the case with orchestral conducting posts. As for theory, this would be something I'd enjoy teaching (at least the core 2-year sequence), but only as part of a music ed- or conducting-focused position. My professional interests center around teaching and mentoring students to high levels of artistry, in the classroom and in orchestral settings. I understand that a music ed professorship would come with a certain degree of research output expected, and I want a program that includes (though is not limited to) strong research training. I would not, however, prefer to center my work primarily in the research realm.

I should also stress that in terms of post-doctoral prospects, I'm picky but patient. I would prefer to teach in the state where I'm from, and enjoy working with high schoolers enough to remain in a K-12 post for a time waiting for gigs at "local" colleges/universities to become available. I realize that I would need to at minimum maintain performance/presentation/adjunct teaching activity to be a viable candidate for these positions.

Lightning strike, your comments about the Ph.D. vs. D.M.A., along with other investigations I've done are reassuring, indeed. Taken with choirguy's comments, it seems that the least "limiting" option may in fact be a Ph.D. in music ed, with strong demonstrable skills in conducting.

I should also mention that my goal of earning a music doctorate is less about ensuring competitiveness than it is about attaining a longtime personal goal. I very much enjoy music making and music learning, and wish to achieve the highest levels of artist-scholarship in a demonstrable way.

As for Boston, I understand that there is a spirit within academe that is at best tentative toward online degrees. My preference, certainly, would be to do an on-campus program--primarily for the collegiate teaching opportunities and personal relationships that are so central to artistry. I have little in the way of qualms about the educational quality of a degree from BU. As stated, my primary reason for considering that program is to help minimize the financial impact on my family that would occur if I were to leave my full-time job

Of course, I am not making any decisions based solely on the information in this and other forum threads; I will continue to consult a number of resources to get as clear a picture of what I want--and what's out there. But all of your help has been appreciated thus far. Feel free to chime in with further insights!


Thanks again.