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[skinnymargarita]

I started writing this thing almost a year ago, and to date I have completed all the sections/chapters that were slated and outlined for me by my chair and committee, however, I keep submitting sections of my chapters for review/suggestions/edits as hu's procedures outlined for me to do. I

My issue is, as well as many others in the program and under hu's advisement, is that hu's has not even returned one piece of written work with any comments/suggestions for edits, etc. since the initial submission a year ago...hu has talked about things hu recommended on the phone, and keeps stating that hu will be forwarding back the work with hu's notes for continued edits, etc. Never once have seen the returns.

I wonder if you have my old advisor *cough, cough*! Your story resonates so well. It brings back the feelings of frustration that I lived with the entire process. I ended up finishing my dissertation with edits emailed twice. A couple of times I went to hu's office and sat there and did not leave until I received some help before defense.

I don't want to give you any bad advice. Thinking back what would I have done differently? I may have wanted to switch my advisor but that would set me up to look bad at the u. I just did what I could myself, found a doc student who did edits for me until he was burned out, and rode the waves. I still think my diss could be better, but have no idea really. It is a lot of money, time and future depending on the turn out.

Good luck!

[tenured_feminist]

I don't get why an advisor would encourage student to start writing up a dissertation prior to finishing coursework, taking exams, and defending a prospectus, but perhaps that is a field thing. And I do think it's obnoxious to promise to read something and then not deliver repeatedly.

That being said, OP, it's your responsibility to keep your priorities straight. Quit fooling around with lit reviews that may not turn out to be central to your dissertation once you have a full committee and focus on completing your coursework and passing your exams.

If your advisor is too busy generally, there's a very simple solution. Once you are at the dissertation proposal stage, find an ambitious junior person and add that person on as your co-chair.

In general, I think it's wise for students and faculty supervisors to have explicit conversations about expectations and obligations, and the expectations and obligations should flow in two directions.

Oh, another general observation: Overcommitted faculty really care a lot less than most grad students assume about the possibility of someone's switching to a different advisor. As a rule of thumb, I'd guess that anyone who is chairing more than four or five dissertations would be delighted to hear that a potential advisee just wants that person to be a member of the committee. Obviously there are egomaniacal student hogs exceptions out there, but they are exceptions.

[runwithscissors]

As a practical point, if your advisor is only going to give limited feedback on your writing it might be wise (once you have started the dissertation) to start up a reading group amongst the other PhD students under the same advisor. Then you will be able to comment upon one another's work constructively and in a timely fashion.

[msparticularity]

I started writing this thing almost a year ago, and to date I have completed all the sections/chapters that were slated and outlined for me by my chair and committee, however, I keep submitting sections of my chapters for review/suggestions/edits as hu's procedures outlined for me to do. I

My issue is, as well as many others in the program and under hu's advisement, is that hu's has not even returned one piece of written work with any comments/suggestions for edits, etc. since the initial submission a year ago...hu has talked about things hu recommended on the phone, and keeps stating that hu will be forwarding back the work with hu's notes for continued edits, etc. Never once have seen the returns.

I wonder if you have my old advisor *cough, cough*! Your story resonates so well. It brings back the feelings of frustration that I lived with the entire process. I ended up finishing my dissertation with edits emailed twice. A couple of times I went to hu's office and sat there and did not leave until I received some help before defense.

I don't want to give you any bad advice. Thinking back what would I have done differently? I may have wanted to switch my advisor but that would set me up to look bad at the u. I just did what I could myself, found a doc student who did edits for me until he was burned out, and rode the waves. I still think my diss could be better, but have no idea really. It is a lot of money, time and future depending on the turn out.

Good luck!

SkinnyMargarita, I didn't want to go into your experience, but I think a LOT of what happened to you may be relevant. I particularly mean the lack of attention to the wider world of research, as well as the complete failure to realistically prepare doc students for the demands and assumptions of the job market. I wonder whether it might be helpful to the OP for you to share the ideas that you had about what your doctorate would do for you, and what you have been discovering? 

[bread_pirate_naan]

I would like to drop in an anecdote about a top scholar, in top program, with few students.  Chapters submitted(50 pages at a time). 

Feedback: "This is not good enough.  Rewrite it."  Lather, rinse, repeat.

If the chair of your department has 6 advisees defending this year and there are numerous people in your cohort who are also advisees of the DC, if you expect everything to happen in a highly personalized, attentive manner, you may have chosen the wrong program, not just the wrong advisor.

My advisor is very busy and sometimes forgets things I have mentioned about my work.  I do not find this all that frustrating, as nothing my advisor does or doesn't do keeps me from working.  I am all about me, my advisor is involved in many things.

I don't get why an advisor would encourage student to start writing up a dissertation prior to finishing coursework, taking exams, and defending a prospectus, but perhaps that is a field thing.

Yes.  It's pretty easy to be framing a diss a long time if you have a solid topic and can work on ideas through seminar papers.  Defending the prospectus is somewhat different than that.  I was discussing my non-existent prospectus/diss with an editor of a uni press in the middle of coursework.  The project has just gotten stronger since then, but it hasn't changed.  I've had my cocktail party phrasing down for a long time.

While I fellow students not to come in with their idea hashed out to allow room to explore, I was actually doing dissertation research before I even knew which PhD program I was going to attend.  I didn't know that when I was doing the mega-fun lit review, which I had set aside for a couple of years.  I still read widely during coursework and am able to write and present on topics tangential to my primary research while developing related theoretical models in another subfield.

I do not get the idea that the OP is interested in a research career, but building bibliographies and reviewing literature are pretty basic to maintaining momentum in my research agenda.

Oh, another general observation: Overcommitted faculty really care a lot less than most grad students assume about the possibility of someone's switching to a different advisor. As a rule of thumb, I'd guess that anyone who is chairing more than four or five dissertations would be delighted to hear that a potential advisee just wants that person to be a member of the committee. Obviously there are egomaniacal student hogs exceptions out there, but they are exceptions.

When I was at an admissions event prior to the start of my program I mentioned to one of the faculty that they seemed to be an awful lot of advisees.  Indeed.  I did get an email shortly after, thanking me for noticing and suggesting it would be better to work with another scholar.  I did not choose that program.  I asked one of our first years why they didn't choose that program (different advisor, logical choice for certain the research interests).  It is in quiet disarray.

[skinnymargarita]

I started writing this thing almost a year ago, and to date I have completed all the sections/chapters that were slated and outlined for me by my chair and committee, however, I keep submitting sections of my chapters for review/suggestions/edits as hu's procedures outlined for me to do. I

My issue is, as well as many others in the program and under hu's advisement, is that hu's has not even returned one piece of written work with any comments/suggestions for edits, etc. since the initial submission a year ago...hu has talked about things hu recommended on the phone, and keeps stating that hu will be forwarding back the work with hu's notes for continued edits, etc. Never once have seen the returns.

I wonder if you have my old advisor *cough, cough*! Your story resonates so well. It brings back the feelings of frustration that I lived with the entire process. I ended up finishing my dissertation with edits emailed twice. A couple of times I went to hu's office and sat there and did not leave until I received some help before defense.

I don't want to give you any bad advice. Thinking back what would I have done differently? I may have wanted to switch my advisor but that would set me up to look bad at the u. I just did what I could myself, found a doc student who did edits for me until he was burned out, and rode the waves. I still think my diss could be better, but have no idea really. It is a lot of money, time and future depending on the turn out.

Good luck!

SkinnyMargarita, I didn't want to go into your experience, but I think a LOT of what happened to you may be relevant. I particularly mean the lack of attention to the wider world of research, as well as the complete failure to realistically prepare doc students for the demands and assumptions of the job market. I wonder whether it might be helpful to the OP for you to share the ideas that you had about what your doctorate would do for you, and what you have been discovering? 

I would be happy to respond. My experience was so very similar. One of the things I am learning (post-doc) is the need for my research to apply to the bigger picture. I hoped to find significance with my dissertation (and if it would have followed my original plan it may have) in its original format. Unfortunately, my committee didn't see the research as I did. Partly, they really didn't understand my field. As I come to find out, a little tweaking of the language may have been all that was necessary to bring in the necessary language to my work. Maybe I needed more backbone, but who is to say now??? Be sure that your research is meaningful to the wider world of research in your field! - That means that you must spend an enormous amount of time reading, thinking about and responding internally to the research in your field.

I never had the conversation with anyone at my u about the big picture of what the degree would do for me, what I could expect and what I needed to accomplish with my diss. This is a very important part of the process, as I now am in the situation of not having a lot of possibilities for my future career. I have no research that makes me shine, little knowledge on creating work that is appreciated by the field I work in, and no job prospects in my home town.

I had hoped to get a TT position at the U near my home, thinking a doctorate would  help get me a position at the u. I found out that not only is my research weak, unpublishable, and not repeatable, but it will not help me get the position I went through this process to achieve. (please do not feel sorry for me as I am working on other paths, with the help of a mentor!).

My advice is to be sure of what you want (#1) and be very, very sure that what you are doing will help you get what you want (#2). Check with your current discipline to verify your specific desires.

Good luck and may the force be with you!

[wsr88d]

Well - I appreciate all the feedback and various criticism regarding my situation. The one aspect that is bothering me, I am at the mercy of my chair/ad visor...who convinced me to start writing earlier than really I wanted to. Though, I have no really issues with the process of writing and feel that I have learned and accomplished a lot so far - but when the chair/ad visor is putting me on a "timetable" to get x, y, & z completed, and when I meet that deadline, I cannot seem to progress further because I am stuck in limbo waiting for hu to supply feedback and suggestions, etc. I mean I how can I move on to stage 2 or 3, when stage 1 has not been approved and signed off? If that makes any sense?

I actually enjoy the independence of working on my chapters and researching my field - that I do not have any issues - it is just the lack of communication that my chair is providing me when I have questions/comments/ ideas, etc.

I have a couple of colleagues that I do converse with and use as peer readers, and do have an individual who is in their post-doc that I have befriended to also read and bounce ideas off of....while those close to me in this realm has been beneficial in many respects - I still have to turn things in to the chair/advisor at the end of the day. Responding to another poster here.......my overall career objective is not to work or teach at the university level.....as I am not into the whole research aspect right now - though that could change in the coming year or so. But my my career goal is to teach at the CC or SC level where research and publications are not a top priority for TT. I am more focused on the teaching rather than the research a this time.

Plus, it was an agreement between my adviosr and myself prior to beginning the program that I did not need nor require hu's permission to look for FT/TT college position if I so desired...there was an agreement of  that and full support would be given to me if/when I would be pursuing this option.

[msparticularity]

The one aspect that is bothering me, I am at the mercy of my chair/ad visor...who convinced me to start writing earlier than really I wanted to. Though, I have no really issues with the process of writing and feel that I have learned and accomplished a lot so far - but when the chair/ad visor is putting me on a "timetable" to get x, y, & z completed, and when I meet that deadline, I cannot seem to progress further because I am stuck in limbo waiting for hu to supply feedback and suggestions, etc. I mean I how can I move on to stage 2 or 3, when stage 1 has not been approved and signed off? If that makes any sense?

I have a thought--although of course there is really no telling if this is what is happening. Given that you are not directed toward a research career, and really just want to finish the degree expeditiously so you can get a teaching-intensive job, I wonder whether your advisor has taken you at your word and is trying to move you through the process as quickly as possible. S/he may be having you do the writing in order to focus your research question(s) and method. If s/he believes in a process approach to writing, the idea may be that having you engage in successive chapters and drafts will help you to narrow and articulate 1) what you wish to research; and 2) how much you already know/how well-prepared you are. If this is the case, then the writing itself is the point, to enable you to process through your own ideas and gain some clarity--and extended critique by him/her at this point would be beside the point. If this is the approach s/he is taking, then I would expect that the next stage would be to sit down and talk to you about what has been revealed for you by the writing process, and what your advisor seems emerging from this process.

I also want to caution you that your idea that a CC or SLAC will not be interested in your research may or may not be accurate. This has certainly been true in the past, and to some degree may still be true in education in some regions. However, it is more often the case now (as with other fields) that the best one can do with a doctorate but no research is a clinical faculty position, not TT. And these jobs are more often available at mid-sized and large universities. The CCs and SLACs often have their pick of of people with doctorates for adjuncting, and reserve TT slots for people with at least some research--especially the small four-year colleges.