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[thehighking]

Just curious what y'all think:

I recently got wikijected from a job to which my advisor had sent a personal note for me (hu is a "Big Name" and has several friends "Big Name" friends there). Additionally, I had another Big Name sending a letter and note for me to someone else on the SC in question.

I'm not asking whether I can do anything to change this--I realize I can't and their decision is their decision and for whatever reason I am not a fit for that school...but I am curious why because on paper it seemed that I was perfect (and the two Big Names in question thought so also, which is why they specifically sent custom notes to their friends...)

Is it appropriate to ask my advisor to inquire as to *why* I wasn't even long-listed? My interests and qualifications fit me for this add almost to an exact "T" and it would be very helpful for me to know why I got passed over so that I could try potentially to improve a perceived lack...

Suggestions?

[thisisme]

You can ask your advisor whether he has any idea what was going on.

He might also ask his "friends" (or might be told anyhow) if the occasion arises, i.e. when he meets any of them and chats at a conference. It's not usual in my filed to call people up and inquire about the why. But it seems reasonable to me that you let him know that you would be very interested into the why and he might (might!) eventually come up with a comment for you, which eventually might be a quite useful recommendation indeed. So its worth to talk to him, he is your advisor after all.

On the other hand, many many things could have happened that may have nothing to do with further applications and that you may or may not find out, e.g. not every big name is necessarily listens to any other big name....(likely, people will come up with more extended lists here).

Despite: wikijection is not rejection! Who knows...

Good luck!

-

[seniorscholar]

I a similar situation as an advisor, I have sometimes had the person in the hiring department who is a friend come up to me at the conference and say quietly, "Tell candidate X that . . ."  Once or twice it has been something useful to pass along (I remember a "he spoke so quietly some of us couldn't understand what he was saying"); usually it has been a short version of a kerfuffle within the department or between the department and the administration.

[squidward]

Competition is tough - there could well have been a number of applicants even more qualified than you applying for the job, such that you don't even make the long short list.  Getting feedback could certainly help you next time around (especially if you knew you needed to specifically work on grants, publishing, teaching, whatever), and these informal channels are probably the best/only way to get any kind of feedback, since search committees can't give direct official feedback to every single candidate.

[thehighking]

Thanks, all.

I will initiate an "inquiry process" with my "Big Names" to see what's up. :)

I have been trying to stay relatively positive about the whole process (it is my first time around), but this is sort of disheartening since I thought I could count on this little extra "oomph" for my application at this school. I guess the lesson is that NOTHING should ever be taken for granted when it comes to the job market because it simply brutal. :)

[aristotelian]

Just remember, dozens of other candidates also called in favors from their Big Names. Their phone calls were probably just as glowing, and they are probably just as perfect for the job.  In this market, you can be perfect and still not get a phone call.  I don't think it's worth it to get your advisor involved here.  Just let it go.

[ann05]

The most I ever got through personal connections, special letters, etc, was a really nice personalized rejection ahead of everybody else. Woo!

[lerasmus]

I found out years after some of my job apps from the SC members themselves why I didn't make the short list. If any of the following potentially apply to you, you can save yourself the trouble of asking around:

• ABD status
• Insufficient number of peer-reviewed publications related to primary research area
• For 2nd, 3rd-tier schools: cover letter that shows excessive interest in an intensive research track, which sends warning lights off to the SC that you might not stick around if a R1 job came about
• Not having actually taught an undergraduate, upper-division, seminar-style class
• Based on your living/educational history, concern that you wouldn't be serious about relocating to po-dunk-towne

[alleyoxenfree]

There is also the possibility that the SC included members other than the Big Names, who disliked feeling strong-armed by Big Names and voted against you, because they didn't feel like having a pal of Big Names on the faculty to increase the chances of a bloc voting against them.

There is the possibility that your Big Names think that their Big Names are better friends than they are.  Just because they take the call doesn't mean that they would put their colleague relationships and congeniality on the line to get you the job.  They may be polite on the phone and vote against you in the deliberations.

Find out what you can, but you may also consider whether the Big Name Call Strategy can work against you.  It would not have been welcome in the two SC's I was on.

It's like I tell students who put frats and sororities on a resume.  Do you know who the reader is at the other end and what they think about that? 

A lot of people these days take a dimmer view of that "extra oomph" strategy.  FWIW.

[mouseman]

Just curious what y'all think:

I recently got wikijected from a job to which my advisor had sent a personal note for me (hu is a "Big Name" and has several friends "Big Name" friends there). Additionally, I had another Big Name sending a letter and note for me to someone else on the SC in question.

I'm not asking whether I can do anything to change this--I realize I can't and their decision is their decision and for whatever reason I am not a fit for that school...but I am curious why because on paper it seemed that I was perfect (and the two Big Names in question thought so also, which is why they specifically sent custom notes to their friends...)

Is it appropriate to ask my advisor to inquire as to *why* I wasn't even long-listed? My interests and qualifications fit me for this add almost to an exact "T" and it would be very helpful for me to know why I got passed over so that I could try potentially to improve a perceived lack...

Suggestions?

Yep, somebody gave me a wise suggestion, recently:

mouseman, you can dwell on these things.

There are a bazillion candidates for every job. All of them are JUST LIKE YOU, in the sense that they all value their own accomplishments. Whether a SC picks you or not has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. You don't know what's in anyone else's letters, you don't know what they're looking for and why...there are simply too many unknowns to take this in the way you're taking it.

Now, I know this is hard advice to take (I haven't fully mastered it), but you have not understand that the job search is largely like dating: it may be you strike someone's fancy or you don't. Don't take it personally...

 ;-)

[thehighking]

Just curious what y'all think:

I recently got wikijected from a job to which my advisor had sent a personal note for me (hu is a "Big Name" and has several friends "Big Name" friends there). Additionally, I had another Big Name sending a letter and note for me to someone else on the SC in question.

I'm not asking whether I can do anything to change this--I realize I can't and their decision is their decision and for whatever reason I am not a fit for that school...but I am curious why because on paper it seemed that I was perfect (and the two Big Names in question thought so also, which is why they specifically sent custom notes to their friends...)

Is it appropriate to ask my advisor to inquire as to *why* I wasn't even long-listed? My interests and qualifications fit me for this add almost to an exact "T" and it would be very helpful for me to know why I got passed over so that I could try potentially to improve a perceived lack...

Suggestions?

Yep, somebody gave me a wise suggestion, recently:

mouseman, you can dwell on these things.

There are a bazillion candidates for every job. All of them are JUST LIKE YOU, in the sense that they all value their own accomplishments. Whether a SC picks you or not has nothing to do with you and everything to do with them. You don't know what's in anyone else's letters, you don't know what they're looking for and why...there are simply too many unknowns to take this in the way you're taking it.

Now, I know this is hard advice to take (I haven't fully mastered it), but you have not understand that the job search is largely like dating: it may be you strike someone's fancy or you don't. Don't take it personally...

 ;-)

No doubt, mouseman...no doubt.