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[potential_prof]

I’m a research-track staff member at a major R-1 in a STEM field looking to make a move to a tenure-track position.  My question is what kind of bargaining power does my four plus years on the research-track get me in moving to a tenure-track position at mainly UG institution?  

I’ve read some posts with good advice for people who are in a similar situation – but moving from tenure-track to tenure-track.

Some relevant facts about my current position: 1) My position is a career position – not a glorified post-doc; 2) I’ve done quite well (a couple of million in research as PI/co-PI, good pub. record); 3) I’ve managed to grab a few courses to teach here and there (4 quarters total) with good student evaluations; 4) I’ve advised dozens of students on MS and Honors BS work; 5) My current compensation is comparable to that of an associate Prof. at the places I am looking to move

Some relevant facts on the jobs I’m looking for: 1) advertised as Asst. or Assoc. tenure track; 2) at schools with teaching focus (no PhD programs); 3) tend to be at schools with “lesser” reputation than where I am at (mainly due to small grad programs); 4) the tenure clock is five years at several of the schools I am looking at; 5) There is a focus on research here – but teaching is the main event (3/2 load); 6) I really want to be at a school with an UG focus

My colleagues at Ginormous-R1-University say that my productivity is comparable to an Asst. Prof. – I tend to believe them since it makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

I see a couple of options in my hypothetical transfer to the tenure-track:
A)   Start as fresh Asst. with no credit for past work (assumed with pay cut)
B)   Start as Advanced Asst. with full or reduced tenure clock (assumed with almost same pay as current)
C)   Start as Assoc. with full or reduced tenure clock (assumed with same pay as current)

My one question spawned the following 3 sub questions:
1) Does anybody out there have any first-hand (or even second-hand) experience with a similar situation?  
2) Am I delusional to think B or C might be an option?
3) How does one go about approaching B or C in bargaining (assuming they are an option)?

Thanks for the advice - I've been a reader here for a while and have found a lot of good advice.

[mozman]

Are you moving with funds?

If so, moving as an advanced assistant prof with a shortened tenure clock would be very possible.  Moving as associate?  probably not.

In my department we had a research associate with a string history of NIH funding (R01) move to the TT - she moved as a beginning assistant professor.

We had another come from a different institution - he got a short promotion clock (associate after 3 years).

You need to negotiate.

mm

[potential_prof]

Mozman -

The majority of my funding requires some facilities that I (likely) won't have at the start at my new position.  Some stuff could - but I am mostly industrial and I'm not really sure how portable it is.  To be honest, I hadn't really even considered being able to take my funds with me.  Does anybody know if that is typical - provided that I can do the work at my new school (and not piss off my current colleagues)?

Thanks for the observations.

[biologist_]

In my college at my institution, new faculty start 1 step up the salary scale for each year of postdoc experience.  I would guess that the same deal would apply to years in a research faculty appointment.

So you would get the bump up in pay but you would still have the full tenure clock.

[sibyl]

I'll preface this by repeating that everything varies from institution to institution.  Just because University P gives credit doesn't mean that University Q will, too.

From a rank-and-tenure standpoint, A and B are certainly options; C is usually not.  Salaries (both research and teaching) vary too much to say for sure whether you will have a reduced salary.

You need to decide what is more important to you, as well as what is a deal-breaker and what you can live with if you can't get it.

The way you should negotiate this is to say nothing until you are on campus for the interview.  When you meet with the dean or whoever will discuss rank, tenure, and pay, inquire politely about institutional policies.  The dean will likely expect you to ask and should answer.   Then switch to other topics. 

When the dean calls back with the job offer, then ask for what you want.  If the dean counters with less than you want, offer to trade off one for the other if you can -- that is, you will accept less money only if you have an early tenure consideration, or only if you have a longer tenure clock, or whatever you prefer.

Good luck.

[quest]

This is really going to depend on your specific situation and your institution. You should definately look into if your grant money could be somewhat or partially transferable as part of a continuing collaboration that you might continue to be working on. If you are moving to a larger school - some of your colleagues may be concerned that you demonstrate independence from your previous collaborators which will always be in the back of their minds since funding always had you listed as the Co-PI.

Because of this, the odds that you will start with tenure right off the bat based on your research track experience are probably fairly low. You could do very well and  benefit from situation B. That is - start as assistant professor - use your current position to bargain for a salary increase or summer salary for the first couple of years. Many schools have no restrictions on applying for tenure early. Hit the ground running and do well on your projects, and if you are ready -  after two or three years apply for tenure.  There will be several grant opportunities that you would not be able to access tenured. Making tenure and promotion to associate professor is sometimes one of the only times you have real leveraging power for addition research equipment space or a raise, and you could use this to your advantage. This situation provides the most flexibility in case not everything goes according to plan when you are getting started.

Starting as an untenured associate professor might lead to resentment - and/or increased expectations. (you should be able to do in 2-3 years for tenure what new colleagues do in 5) This is a problem because you still have to deal with moving, setting up a new lab, training students, new classes etc. Since you will not be taking any students with you - I would advise against situation C. Your research productivity might be comparable to an assistant professor but you haven't put out any STUDENTS and that could be a problem - especially if you want to go to a school with a UG teaching focus.

Ask about the tenure process and tenure output expectations when you are interviewing and specifically look for if there is anyone in the department that has gone up for tenure early. Once they offer you the job - then you can negotiate for salary comparable to what you are making now or for start up that would include 2 or 3 years of summer salary.

[potential_prof]

My summary of posts thus far is that my time on the research track should be a decent bargaining chip - depending on the Dept. potentially comparable to time on the tenure track.  Based on this, I should expect to be able to get an Asst. position with some goodies thrown in (salary bump, flexible tenure clock, etc.)

It seems like positioning myself for an Asst. position with some bumped up pay and a reduced tenure option would be the most flexible option.  This matches well with other threads discussing tenure track "advanced" Asst. Profs making a similar switch - albeit from tt to tt.  Starting out as Assoc. without tenure seems to carry some risk with it without a lot of benefit other than the title.

Please feel free to keep the good advice coming!