next »

[fredric_king]

Hi,

I've been asked by a former student to writer her a letter for grad school.  Everyone else I've ever written a letter for has always checked the waive access/confidentiality box.  This student hasn't waived her access.  I'm a bit uncertain how to proceed.  Should I just write the letter or should I ask the student to waive access?  I don't really mind the student being able to read the letter, but I'm curious about what other folks feel about the confidentiality of the letters you write.

thx!

[sciencephd]

Probably an oversight.  Just ask the student.

[notaprof]

I know of some letter readers who feel that a student who does not waive the right of access to the reference letter has something to hide and they are initially suspicious of such applicants. They feel that the referee cannot be as honest as they might otherwise be.   I doubt this is universal but you might want to counsel your advisee that her letters may be looked upon with suspicion by some and for her to consider whether that might be a hindrance to her job search.  She may want to reconsider.  I also know of some referees who refuse to write if the student has not waived the right of access.  The suspicious letter readers and the unwilling writers may not be in the majority but why risk it.

[zainab]

It may not have been an oversight; so many students don't realize they shouldn't be reading the letters and, more problematically, don't understand the reasons behind that. Reminds me of a fellow student who asked our prof. for a reference letter for graduate school and then requested an UNSEALED copy. I was standing right there and watched the prof. stare at him and make all sorts of tortured faces for a good minute or so. I don't that kid got a good reference.

[fredric_king]

Dear Everyone,

Thanks for your quick and helpful input.  I took your advice and wrote the student suggesting that she think about waiving access to the letters for the reasons you all offered.  She wrote me back telling me that it had been an oversight that she hadn't really considered, but that she agreed with my reasons about would adjust her applications.

Chronicle forums to the rescue!

Merry Holidays!

[ucprof]

Assuming it's true you could say that you might write a better letter with the waive checked whereas your letter will be more "generic" and may not stand out so much if you know the student might read it.  The best example of this is where you want to compare to other recently graduated students and it would not be proper to do this if the student reads the letter.

[ptarmigan]

Just FYI, even if you do not waive the right, you can only read the letter after you are accepted and actually enroll somewhere.  There is no right to read the letter before it's sent, or after you're rejected. 

[offthemarket]

Just tell the student you won't be able to write the letter until they check and sign the waiver.  I doubt they'd refuse, but if they do, then suggest to them that they find other letter writers.

If they are overly insistent that they not sign the waiver, write a vanilla letter.  "I confirm that student was enrolled in my course and received a passing grade.  The student was pleasant and attended regularly.  Sincerely, Professor X."

I do not agree with ptarmigan about access to letter before acceptance.  The student can easily file a FOIA request for the letter at any time if they wanted, if it's a public organization.  It may very well be kept on file and easily accessed at any time if the person drops by the office that keeps it on file, even if they were rejected.

[yellowtractor]

Just tell the student you won't be able to write the letter until they check and sign the waiver.  I doubt they'd refuse, but if they do, then suggest to them that they find other letter writers.

If they are overly insistent that they not sign the waiver, write a vanilla letter.  "I confirm that student was enrolled in my course and received a passing grade.  The student was pleasant and attended regularly.  Sincerely, Professor X."

This is what I always say/do, when it comes to this point.

[ptarmigan]

The student can easily file a FOIA request for the letter at any time if they wanted, if it's a public organization.

A FOIA request has nothing to do with the act (FERPA) that gives students the rights to access their academic records at a school at which they are enrolled, which is the right being waived on the LOR form.

[thebuffster]

When I was applying to grad school, 1 of my 3 letter-writers showed me the letter VOLUNTARILY before sending my applications. He said, "I want to show you the letter I'm going to send." The letter was appropriately glowing and complimentary, and it was really nice to read someone I respected saying great things about me.

Of course, I had waived my right to access on all my applications, but this fine person wanted to show it to me anyway.

[frogfactory]

It may not have been an oversight; so many students don't realize they shouldn't be reading the letters and, more problematically, don't understand the reasons behind that. Reminds me of a fellow student who asked our prof. for a reference letter for graduate school and then requested an UNSEALED copy. I was standing right there and watched the prof. stare at him and make all sorts of tortured faces for a good minute or so. I don't that kid got a good reference.

Okay, time to confess.

A long time ago (not for admission to my current degree by a long way) I was required to provide two copies of each reference letter in sealed envelopes, signature over the seal, clear tape over the sig.

I was in the middle of a couple of applications at the time, and people normally ask for things in threes, not twos, so I guess I must have asked for three copies of my reference letter from one ex boss by mistake.  Actually by mistake - I wasn't being sneaky.

In my defence, it wasn't until after I'd sent off the packet and some hemming and hawing that I opened and read the letter.  Thankfully, it was glowing.  In any case, this was not a referee I could have got away with not using.

I do still feel a little guilty.  But happy to have read such very nice things written about myself.  But a little dirty, like an eavesdropper.  But, jaysus, it's like a scenario from one of those personality test questions that are dropped in to check you're answering the test honestly.  How could I have not?


Forgive me Fiona, for I have sinned.

[ptarmigan]

What I kind of hate about the LOR process is that, now, every time I take a test or turn in something to one of the professors writing my LORs, I feel like if I screwed something up, they're going to decide I'm stupid and they don't want to write my letter after all.  Ugh.

[leopard]

It may not have been an oversight; so many students don't realize they shouldn't be reading the letters and, more problematically, don't understand the reasons behind that. Reminds me of a fellow student who asked our prof. for a reference letter for graduate school and then requested an UNSEALED copy. I was standing right there and watched the prof. stare at him and make all sorts of tortured faces for a good minute or so. I don't that kid got a good reference.

Okay, time to confess.

A long time ago (not for admission to my current degree by a long way) I was required to provide two copies of each reference letter in sealed envelopes, signature over the seal, clear tape over the sig.

I was in the middle of a couple of applications at the time, and people normally ask for things in threes, not twos, so I guess I must have asked for three copies of my reference letter from one ex boss by mistake.  Actually by mistake - I wasn't being sneaky.

In my defence, it wasn't until after I'd sent off the packet and some hemming and hawing that I opened and read the letter.  Thankfully, it was glowing.  In any case, this was not a referee I could have got away with not using.

I do still feel a little guilty.  But happy to have read such very nice things written about myself.  But a little dirty, like an eavesdropper.  But, jaysus, it's like a scenario from one of those personality test questions that are dropped in to check you're answering the test honestly.  How could I have not?


Forgive me Fiona, for I have sinned.

I had a similar situation and I too eventually opened the letter. It was amazing to read -- this person thought and stated such great things about me, wow!

I completely understand the rationale and need for confidential letters; however, there is something really nice about actually reading a glowing letter about yourself. It gave me a confidence boost and became a go-to read when I felt down about myself.

I sometimes wish there were a way -- or just a precedent -- for allowing students to see (good) letters. They can serve as real confidence boosters and, amidst a lot of stress, a reminder that someone really does believe in your potential. I realize that the current system doesn't support this in any way, but I wish it did.

Having been in a slightly different position -- that of recommending a professor for a promotion -- I gave a copy to the professor. It was an honor to describe how amazing this person had been to me and what a role this person had played in my life. I was glad to share it directly. Again, I understand that this is a different situation and I was writing an unambiguously good letter, but it would be nice if the lovely things could be stated aloud and shared.

[juillet]

I'd just like to reemphasize a point that someone made earlier.  Not waiving your right to look at the recommendation letters doesn't mean you can tell your reference to let you see it before you send it.  It merely means that if said applicant applies, is accepted, and enrolls at a particular institution, they can look at the letters of recommendation as part of their educational record/file once they are there.  Even if your student does not waive their right to access, the earliest they'll even see your letters is in the semester they attend the graduate program they chose.

Why recommendation writers have an issue with this, I'm not sure - I wonder whether it's a misunderstanding of the law (no, they can't demand to see the letter before they are admitted - FERPA covers educational records and not the application process) or whether people really have a problem with their referents reading their recommendations after they've already enrolled at a place.  What difference does it make to you (or them, really)?

offthemarket is wrong about the Freedom of Information Act request, too.  Letters of recommendation become part of the academic record of the place to which the student applies, not the school at which student is currently enrolled.  In addition to that, the FOI Act pertains to information that the Department of State is believed to have - filing a request involves mailing or faxing a request to the Department of State and including a statement on why the Department is believed to have the information you require.  You also have to pay fees to get it.  And even if you could access your letters through FOIA, even if you waived your rights to review your letters of recommendation through FERPA, that wouldn't pertain to your waiving your rights to request a copy through FOIA.  They're two different acts and waiving your rights to one doesn't equate waiving your rights to the other.

I don't think it's right for professors to ask students to waive their right by law to review their complete educational record.  It also seems a bit unethical to write a lukewarm letter because a student wants to preserve their rights.  Aren't professors supposed to tell students if they feel like they can't write them a strong recommendation letter?

I say this as a graduate student - I've always waived my rights because I have no particular desire to review my letters either before or after I've been accepted and enrolled.  I just think people blow this out of proportion.  I already know what my letter writers had to say about me; that's why I asked them.  I didn't need to see the letters.