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Author Topic: A Crown Jewel of Education Struggles With Cuts  (Read 4697 times)
sad_goat
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« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2009, 06:14:11 PM »

Why would anyone consider Berkeley the "Crown Jewel" of education? This is a serious question. What does that school have to offer over any number of other "educational" institutions?
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In other words, it is a moral and philosophical question, not a question of details.

...it is proper to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties. - James Madison
embitteredhistorian
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« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2009, 06:25:29 PM »

Why would anyone consider Berkeley the "Crown Jewel" of education? This is a serious question. What does that school have to offer over any number of other "educational" institutions?

Nobel laureates, enormous library, world-class scholars in many fields...

Disclaimer: I didn't go to Berkeley.
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terpsichore
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« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2009, 12:18:02 PM »

Why would anyone consider Berkeley the "Crown Jewel" of education? This is a serious question. What does that school have to offer over any number of other "educational" institutions?

When people refer to the University of California as a "Crown Jewel", they're not talking about Berkeley. They're referring to the entire University of California system (all 10 campuses).
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parispundit
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« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2009, 12:50:12 PM »

Anybody know how much the UC system might save by eliminating ALL spending on athletics of any kind?
Followed by all spending on the direct provision of medical/psychiatric services, if any?
Followed by all spending on anything other than education and research and maintenance of buildings?
Oh yes, ending all irrigation and going in for xeriscape gardening?
And last but not least, announcing that the President was taking a salary cut to 250k, and that all workers, faculty or other, earning more than 100k would take a similar % pay cut until their salary was no more than 100k.
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ucprof
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« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2009, 02:19:57 PM »

Anybody know how much the UC system might save by eliminating ALL spending on athletics of any kind?
Followed by all spending on the direct provision of medical/psychiatric services, if any?
Followed by all spending on anything other than education and research and maintenance of buildings?
Oh yes, ending all irrigation and going in for xeriscape gardening?
And last but not least, announcing that the President was taking a salary cut to 250k, and that all workers, faculty or other, earning more than 100k would take a similar % pay cut until their salary was no more than 100k.

1.  Do a google search - there are a number of articles recently about athletic costs - in particular look at the articles about the Berkeley faculty protesting athletic costs.  Short story for UCB - mens football and basketballl are money makers that basically support the rest of the athletics, but overall they are a net loss financially - but at the margin rather than a very large net loss.

2.  The medical centers (e.g. UCSF) are typically money makers.  UCSF is almost completely funded outside of state of CA funds.  If you mean medical benefits, well yes employees get them and they are rather expensive.

3. Spending on stuff other than education, research and buildings - that's a good question that I'm sure many of us want to know.  Even the spending on buildings might be cut back - especially if we eliminated that unions but that is a can of worms.  That said, I know that the facilities charges for renovations in my building were quite reasonable and that they are done in house with full time people rather than contracting out.  Moreover one runs into the issue of competing with the private schools, see below.

4.  I have advocated for zeroscaping and removing some of the more expensive landscaping. But again we run into unions - some of the earlier protests at UCB were by the janitors and grounds people who did not want to lose their jobs.  They are heavily unionized.  The ladder faculty are not.

5.  I would not advocate for the president to take a 250K salary cut, certainly not at the chancellor level on the individual campuses.  Those folks make no more than 400-450K a year so it would be half their salary - in some depts (for example when the chancellor is a science or engineering prof) it would put them below the level of
a senior faculty salary once you include summer salary on grants.  Remember these people are often NAS members or NAE members - these are the people we actually WANT in those jobs - at least they understand the mission of high quality research, in general.   Having seen what happens when you skimp and hire people into admin jobs who really have no clue about high level research - believe me you don't want that. Regarding faculty taking a cut below $100K -  again I would say that you would lose the best people - the NAS/NAE members who earn 200K or more will have to leave because they could not afford to live on 100K in their current housing situation in many cases (or put their kids through school).  By slashing all those above 100K - at least at the top UCs, what you will do is keep the high paid staff working at the same rate as before but cutting the faculty.  Staff salaries are reasonably high - we have people in my dept with assoc degrees making over 50K/year (due to seniority, union representation, etc).  One might argue that at market rate we could hire someone to do the same job at around 30K/year, but not so for faculty who are often hired with multiple offers from private schools (in my case I had an offer from an Ivy when I moved to the UC).  In terms of grants/ recruiting top PhD students there is a big difference between having the top person as compared to say the 10th best person.

Bottom line is that the top UCs compete with top private schools for faculty and students and want to maintain their research stature.  What becomes complicated is that not all UCs are competing at the same level so it is tricky how to manage privatization - which at some level involves the open market for students and faculty - when the different campuses have different levels of national and international recognition of their faculty.  When the UCs had more generous state funding this could all become embedded in the system, so to speak.  On the other hand, the cross the board cheap tuition is what has created huge inequities today in terms of admission rates across campuses (compare applications/acceptances at UCLA or UCB vs. Merced or Riverside).

One could also argue that the role of the UC should not be to compete with private schools.  It would mean a complete restructuring of the UC - faculty there who can get top jobs at private schools will move out and be replaced by people who are not as strong in research. In science and engineering it would mean in the long run a market decrease in federal funding - which is highly competitive and goes to the top people.  In essence, the UC would become more like the CSUs but with a PhD program.  I'm not sure this is good for CA - certainly not for the economy which has benefited from high tech/bio tech industry influenced by the Univ. of CA.  Of course I have to make the disclaimer that I am one of those faculty who could move to a private school but would prefer not to if we can maintain quality in the UC.
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sibyl
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2009, 11:48:01 AM »

Why would anyone consider Berkeley the "Crown Jewel" of education? This is a serious question. What does that school have to offer over any number of other "educational" institutions?

When people refer to the University of California as a "Crown Jewel", they're not talking about Berkeley. They're referring to the entire University of California system (all 10 campuses).


And sometimes they're referring to the entire California state system, including the Cal States and community colleges.  For a long time the system provided the state with the nation's best public higher education system.  I guess the system is the crown, and either the UC system or Berkeley as the crown jewel.
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"I do not pretend to set people right, but I do see that they are often wrong." -- Jane Austen, Mansfield Park
wannabeaphd
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2009, 12:41:23 PM »

I have to say that I agree with ucprof (this is becoming a habit) in terms of maintaining the UC at the position they have come to hold. The UC contributes something special to California that is separate from CA private education and the CSU. Some campuses serve as institutions between the CSU and exclusive privates. However, some UC's provide also provide a place for top quality professors who are committed to public education to work. Now I know that not every professor is at UC Berkeley because of a commitment to public education, but I do have a hard time thinking of too many other public institutions that are so near the top in terms of research and graduate study.
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"In the end, all we really have is our memories of the life we lived.  Time to make a deposit in that fund." -- larryc
mozman
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2009, 03:25:37 PM »

...all workers, faculty or other, earning more than 100k would take a similar % pay cut until their salary was no more than 100k.

Uh... in the sciences and engineering, advanced assistant profs can make over 100K a year if they bring in summer salary (and its still not enough to buy a house in some areas).

Disclaimer:  I don't work at UC (wrong coast) but went to grad school there.
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Could you grow the foot into another patient? I mean, you are a scientist.
mountainguy
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2009, 10:32:10 PM »

I'd say that the UC system's woes are a symptom of more systemic political problems in California. The state's entire budget is an absolute mess and it won't be easy to fix.
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ucprof
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2009, 12:44:06 AM »

mountainguy is right, and one could have easily predicted this.  Last year when all the other universities where starting to have hiring freezes, the administrators on my campus were `blocking their ears and singing' while we continued to hire away - and sure enough just weeks after they finished recruiting in spring 2009 - they started talking about pay cuts and furloughs.  You'd think _someone_ should have had just a bit more foresight.....
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