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[alleyoxenfree]

I've been thinking about the various advice, and I read those articles yesterday. Thanks, MsP.

About the St. John's Wort: in my particular situation it seems to be helpful. I'm not on any prescription medication and I rarely take over-the-counter meds either, so there are no interaction problems, and while I don't have a doctor's diagnosis, if there were one it would probably be mild or moderate depression. I think it's mainly change fatigue and irrational worry about the next move not working out, not leading to the stability I'm now craving. While this move will ultimately be a very good thing, this whole decade feels like it's been one move after another, and the one before it was not marked by stability or continuity, either. And my ex- portrays it as a character flaw on my part, one that makes me unfit to be a parent. He communicates that indirectly to my daughter and has communicated it much more openly to lawyers, mediators, a child therapist, and the courts. It helps that all of those parties disagree with him, but it's still wearing. Mdwlrk, I have noticed similarities between our exes from other posts you've made. I can't recall specifics, but I know that the comparison has jumped out at me several times.

As for the complementary medicine, a friend of mine goes to an acupuncturist. I'll be renting a room from her and her family for a few months, so I'll get a chance to hear about it and maybe get a referral. I haven't explored any non-traditional (by western standards) approaches. I would like to learn to meditate, but I haven't put much time or energy into it yet.

Kedves, I'm not thinking of anything as "something I should be able to get along without"--just noting how long the periodic insomnia's been going on, and wanting to get to a point where I'm not experiencing insomnia, though I think my case is probably pretty mild. Oh, and I do re-read favorite books in times of stress. There was a time, when I was finishing up the Ph.D. and preparing to move to ex-husband land for the first time, when I resorted to Calvin and Hobbes as bedtime reading. (I just left ex-land last year after fruitlessly searching for a livable job for 4 years, and now, after a year and a half away, have finally found one.)

Thank you all for discussion and suggestions. It's amazingly helpful to think about this in response to specific questions and suggestions, because it helps me get out of pure feeling and begin to analyze. Thanks.

Maybe you can find and print a thread on the fora that shows that underlines that moving is a facet of academic life, just as it is of professions like being in the military.  The fact that your ex not only isn't supportive of it but badmouths your profession to your daughter, and uses one of your strengths - you are a highly educated and accomplished woman - to try to excoriate you is something that those professionals and the court should understand in context.  No wonder you are a little extra weary.  Chime to the recommendation about acupuncture.  After a session, I always wanted to sleep (so don't plan to go dancing afterwards - maybe the next day), and it was the one thing that got my sleep habits back after major surgery.

[msparticularity]

I've been thinking about the various advice, and I read those articles yesterday. Thanks, MsP.

About the St. John's Wort: in my particular situation it seems to be helpful. I'm not on any prescription medication and I rarely take over-the-counter meds either, so there are no interaction problems, and while I don't have a doctor's diagnosis, if there were one it would probably be mild or moderate depression. I think it's mainly change fatigue and irrational worry about the next move not working out, not leading to the stability I'm now craving. While this move will ultimately be a very good thing, this whole decade feels like it's been one move after another, and the one before it was not marked by stability or continuity, either. And my ex- portrays it as a character flaw on my part, one that makes me unfit to be a parent. He communicates that indirectly to my daughter and has communicated it much more openly to lawyers, mediators, a child therapist, and the courts. It helps that all of those parties disagree with him, but it's still wearing. Mdwlrk, I have noticed similarities between our exes from other posts you've made. I can't recall specifics, but I know that the comparison has jumped out at me several times.

As for the complementary medicine, a friend of mine goes to an acupuncturist. I'll be renting a room from her and her family for a few months, so I'll get a chance to hear about it and maybe get a referral. I haven't explored any non-traditional (by western standards) approaches. I would like to learn to meditate, but I haven't put much time or energy into it yet.

Kedves, I'm not thinking of anything as "something I should be able to get along without"--just noting how long the periodic insomnia's been going on, and wanting to get to a point where I'm not experiencing insomnia, though I think my case is probably pretty mild. Oh, and I do re-read favorite books in times of stress. There was a time, when I was finishing up the Ph.D. and preparing to move to ex-husband land for the first time, when I resorted to Calvin and Hobbes as bedtime reading. (I just left ex-land last year after fruitlessly searching for a livable job for 4 years, and now, after a year and a half away, have finally found one.)

Thank you all for discussion and suggestions. It's amazingly helpful to think about this in response to specific questions and suggestions, because it helps me get out of pure feeling and begin to analyze. Thanks.

Maybe you can find and print a thread on the fora that shows that underlines that moving is a facet of academic life, just as it is of professions like being in the military.  The fact that your ex not only isn't supportive of it but badmouths your profession to your daughter, and uses one of your strengths - you are a highly educated and accomplished woman - to try to excoriate you is something that those professionals and the court should understand in context.  No wonder you are a little extra weary.  Chime to the recommendation about acupuncture.  After a session, I always wanted to sleep (so don't plan to go dancing afterwards - maybe the next day), and it was the one thing that got my sleep habits back after major surgery.

I, too, have found acupuncture remarkably helpful--most of all for my asthma. And I also like massage, since I tend to carry my stress physically. On the insomnia, I am (yet again!) apparently just the usual cliche: middle-aged woman with chronic health issues including anxiety. I have given up hoping it will go away, and just try to work with it.

[outlier]

MsParticularity, have you ever tried EMDR? I found that to be very effective in coming to terms with a lot of stuff, though not the be-all-end-all I hoped it would be! What do you mean about being the usual cliche: have people given you that impression, or is it an interpretation of messages in popular culture?

I have what is probably a common stupid question about acupuncture--what does it feel like? Does it hurt? MsParticularity, you mentioned it for asthma. For me, it would just be depression/anxiety, but my husband (not the nasty ex) has stress/anxiety and all sorts of weird physical ailments, including, lately, frequent nausea. Doctors can never find a physical cause, which makes me think it all comes down to stress. Regardless of the cause, the symptoms are real, and I wonder if acupuncture would help. He also has tinnitus that has been horribly loud lately, probably another stress-related issue. For me, this becomes a matter of boundaries, to try to help without the two of us getting into a death spiral of self-perpetuating misery!

Alleyoxenfree, my ex has a lot invested in his bad opinion of me, and facts aren't going to change his mind at this late date. My daughter just turned 15 and she's beginning to see the reality, so his influence is limited. And the court that oversees this case is in a university-rich area. They're not influenced by his arguments, either. He's more an annoyance and a stressor than anything else, though I bought into his worldview for much longer than I should have, so maybe I should go find and read those threads!

[alleyoxenfree]

I have what is probably a common stupid question about acupuncture--what does it feel like? Does it hurt? MsParticularity, you mentioned it for asthma. For me, it would just be depression/anxiety, but my husband (not the nasty ex) has stress/anxiety and all sorts of weird physical ailments, including, lately, frequent nausea. Doctors can never find a physical cause, which makes me think it all comes down to stress. Regardless of the cause, the symptoms are real, and I wonder if acupuncture would help. He also has tinnitus that has been horribly loud lately, probably another stress-related issue. For me, this becomes a matter of boundaries, to try to help without the two of us getting into a death spiral of self-perpetuating misery!

It's a shame but predictable that the ex is so entrenched, but good that your daughter is not so young that she can be brainwashed by his drama.  As to acupuncture, for me, I rarely felt the needles at all, which surprised me because I had them in some areas I thought would be sensitive.  Sometimes you can feel them in the sense that you could feel it if you had gold stars or stickers on a spot on your skin; you can feel there is something there but it doesn't hurt.  Occasionally, a needle will ache, in which case the practitioner can alter its depth or change its spot.  For me, this happens most likely with needles in my feet.  They can also change the size of the needle and if you know you've been sensitive in that spot or with that size, they can change it.  There should be a blanket to keep you warm and a bell or some way to call them back into the room to make any adjustments should you get uncomfortable.  My practitioner used electric acupuncture to deliver a stimulus to the needles; this felt like your feet do if you've ever tried on one of those foot massagers that pulse.   

Acupuncture for stress and anxiety would seem to be a good thing to try.  I always felt fantastic for about a week afterwards - less stressed, sleeping better, healthier overall.

[msparticularity]

MsParticularity, have you ever tried EMDR? I found that to be very effective in coming to terms with a lot of stuff, though not the be-all-end-all I hoped it would be! What do you mean about being the usual cliche: have people given you that impression, or is it an interpretation of messages in popular culture?

I have what is probably a common stupid question about acupuncture--what does it feel like? Does it hurt? MsParticularity, you mentioned it for asthma. For me, it would just be depression/anxiety, but my husband (not the nasty ex) has stress/anxiety and all sorts of weird physical ailments, including, lately, frequent nausea. Doctors can never find a physical cause, which makes me think it all comes down to stress. Regardless of the cause, the symptoms are real, and I wonder if acupuncture would help. He also has tinnitus that has been horribly loud lately, probably another stress-related issue. For me, this becomes a matter of boundaries, to try to help without the two of us getting into a death spiral of self-perpetuating misery!

Alleyoxenfree, my ex has a lot invested in his bad opinion of me, and facts aren't going to change his mind at this late date. My daughter just turned 15 and she's beginning to see the reality, so his influence is limited. And the court that oversees this case is in a university-rich area. They're not influenced by his arguments, either. He's more an annoyance and a stressor than anything else, though I bought into his worldview for much longer than I should have, so maybe I should go find and read those threads!

On the acupuncture, my experience has just as Alleyoxenfree describes.  EMDR was suggested to me, but by that time I was doing very well and really didn't feel the need to plunge back into a whole new therapy. I should mention, also, that I spent several high-intensity years in recovery and did a lot of emotional and cognitive work, in addition to exploring all kinds of integrative and complementary therapies. And it is demonstrably the case that being a middle-aged female is the greatest predictor of having insomnia; that's what I meant by being a cliche. I also have RA, which means that I often have enough pain to interfere with sleep, which is another common condition.

I also have tinnitis, of varying intensity, but it doesn't seem to bother me all that much most of the time. I gather that it is not uncommon among Boomers, given the amount of noise that we subjected ourselves to before it was commonly understood to cause problems. However, it is very problematic for some people; William Shatner, famously, just about lost his mind with it. I think you might want to get more medical input before ascribing your spouse's issues with it to stress.

Also, if he's had the usual medical checks and is still experiencing nausea, I would definitely consult a Chinese practitioner for acupuncture and/or traditional medicines. I have found Chinese medicine tremendously helpful for chronic issues. My bouts with nausea tend to relate directly to stress; MrP experiences stress with irritable bowel. Not sure who got the better deal there! :)

[alleyoxenfree]

And his gallbladder.  Bad digestion can be related to this.

We consume a lot of what I think of as junk oils these days - sunflower, safflower really give me nausea.

[mdwlark]

I'm afraid of shots, but I've had acupuncture dozens of times.  Maybe a hundred.  I've lost count.  It is an interesting experience.  The needles are not hollow tubes delivering a substance, like a shot, they are solid and therefore can be very fine.  Most of the time you hardly feel anything, sometimes just a little pressure as they go in, but I wouldn't call it pain.  Like msP said, if you have an imbalance in your body, a related spot where the needle goes in may ache.  Sometimes you can just wait a few seconds and it passes, or the acupuncturist can change its direction or location.  Discovering those spots is good news, because it identifies (in Chinese terminology) where you have a blockage in a channel, so that it can be opened.  Sometimes after all the needles were placed, as I lay on the table, different needle locations would ache for a few seconds, then that would disappear and a new location would ache.  You want to notify your acupuncturist if that gets uncomfortable, but I mostly thought it was interesting and figured it was part of the healing force. One of the more interesting aspects of my acupuncture experiences is that I could usually tell where the next needle was going to be placed, because that spot on my body would have a slight sensitivity or ache before the needle was put there.  When the needle was placed, that ache would stop and a new spot would ache in advance of the next needle. 

When I was being treated for depression and anxiety, my acupuncturist used to put a needle between my eyes in what he called the "calm the spirit" spot.  I usually went into a trance-like state of deep meditation just moments after he placed it.  I asked why that happened and he said, "because you need it."  The trance was very pleasant.  It was sort of like sleep, but I was aware of my surroundings and what was happening.  I usually floated around in a pleasant, altered state for about two and half days afterward.  That particular spot would sometimes bleed afterward, and usually there is no blood at all after acupuncture.  I guess there was a lot of chi being activated there to calm my troubled spirit.

[mountainguy]

This thread is really making me want to try acupuncture. I have chronic anxiety/depression issues. After nearly two years of being on Lexarpo, its effectiveness is beginning to wane. I'll be going in for an appointment next week that hopefully will result switching to a different medication.

 I also have insomnia (and I'm an under-30 male!!) that the Lexapro was never very effective at treating. I was on Ambien for a while, which was effective, but it was a major battle with my insurance company to get them to cover it and I'm fearful of becoming addicted to it. My psychiatrist had me on Trazodone for a while, which sort of worked, but gave me vertigo before I fell asleep and typically left me feeling groggy the next morning. At this point, I'm desperate to try anything that will get my sleeping pattern back on track.

[voxprincipalis]

This thread is really making me want to try acupuncture.

Me too. How do you find a good one? And how much can you expect to pay, if it's not covered by insurance?

P.S. -- Outlier, I too am a fan of EMDR, though I found the touch/tapping version to be far more effective for me than either the visual or the aural versions. The touch/tapping version was ... unreal.

VP

[spork]

This thread is really making me want to try acupuncture.

Me too. How do you find a good one? And how much can you expect to pay, if it's not covered by insurance?

P.S. -- Outlier, I too am a fan of EMDR, though I found the touch/tapping version to be far more effective for me than either the visual or the aural versions. The touch/tapping version was ... unreal.

VP

I've had acupuncture done by 4 or 5 different people.  On me there is definitely an effect, though it is temporary and again on me, the effects of massage and chiropractic adjustment last longer, so I prefer them. Some people have a better sense of touch than others, which in my experience affects skill at acupuncture.  In other words, some people are just better able to read where the needles should go and better able at putting them at those points on the body.  It's the same as massage -- some people have a real talent for it, others don't, even if they know all the mechanics of it.

I would say beware of anyone who mixes traditional Chinese and modern Western physiological paradigms -- for example, "you have too much yang in your kidneys, drink more water." When Chinese medical traditions formed, no one knew that kidneys filtered the blood.  Organs therefore represent different qualities or functions than they do anatomically.

I would also ask around for recommendations -- athletes, people with chronic illnesses, etc.

[outlier]

I too am a fan of EMDR, though I found the touch/tapping version to be far more effective for me than either the visual or the aural versions. The touch/tapping version was ... unreal.

I, too, did the tactile version of EMDR. I guess EMDR is still somewhat controversial, but when I heard a story on Science Friday about "Erasing Fear Memories," it reminded me of EMDR. I think that when the brain research advances far enough, EMDR will be shown to work in similar ways as the technique in the study. http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200912116

I told my husband about people's experiences with acupuncture, and both of us are going to try it. This feels like a major breakthrough. So I have the same question as VP about finding a good practitioner. I did find a practice in my area with "nationally licensed" acupuncturists who studied at Academy of Chinese Culture and Health Science in Oakland, Ca. I don't know enough yet to evaluate whether that makes them "good." Their rates are $90 for the first session and then $75 per session or 3 treatments for $180.

Msparticularity, just to clarify, I don't think my husband's tinnitus is caused by stress. I know there's a physical cause and he's been living with it for years, but he's said that stress affects the volume and intensity. The nausea may have a physical cause as well, but doctors and tests haven't found it. So acupuncture may help with anxiety and nausea. We'll see.

[spork]

Tinnitus and nausea -- any dizziness from vertigo?  If so, has he been evaluated for Meniere's syndrome?

[mdwlark]

I chose my acupuncturist from the phone book because he was from communist China and had been trained in a Chinese acupuncture university before immigrating.  I didn't want to go to some white guy who had taken a weekend course and mixed it with tarot cards and new age religion.  (I get a dose of old Chinese philosophy instead. Great stuff.)  I then found out that my guy was the acupuncturist for two major sports teams, so that confirmed my decision.  

I chose my chiropractor for a similar reason.  I found out that his partner was the chiropractor for a lot of players on our NBA basketball team. The head chiropractor was booked out 3 months in advance, but I assumed his junior partner had to be OK too.  That was a good call.  

For a few conditions, Chinese medicine works right away, but for most, including depression, which is really complicated, it takes several weeks, more often several months.  I had one serious medical condition that acupuncture and herbs cured in three days, but usually you are in for a long haul.  Most Americans are too impatient to wait for Chinese medicine to work and want a quicker fix.  I have sent a couple friends to my acupuncturist and they didn't like it, so I generally keep quiet about it.  You pay a price for the quick fix of powerful American drugs because they throw the rest of the body out of balance.  American doctors assume that if there isn't a glaring side effect, it is not having any effect on the other organ systems.  But American medicine is great for huge acute problems that need an immediate major intervention.  

My acupuncturist charges $50 per session, but he has this philosophy about not being greedy and making treatment affordable for everyone.  You might pay a lot more in a major large city.  I think of it as an investment in my wellness, and it is cheaper than the medical bills would be if these problems turned into major medical problems later.  

There was a tinnitus thread a while ago, and I posted what I do for tinnitus there--mostly vitamins and minerals and a few American herbs.  It is a maintenance program, it never quite cures it, but provides relief. With all folk cures, follow it at your own risk.  Yes, do have him get checked for Meniere's.  I went to a couple American medical doctors who shrugged off my tinnitus before I embarked on my folk treatment.  My Vitamin regimen works better for me than Chinese treatment for that.   

[cardamom]

I have been receiving acupuncture for about 6 years, largely to address chronic insomnia and moderate to severe depression. I have found it helpful, although it's just one of several tools/avenues I use to help with these issues.

In terms of the actual experience of acupuncture, many of my points tend to be sensitive so it is not uncommon for me to have very brief but sharp pain when needles are first inserted on those points. As a result, I don't often have the dreamy, sleepy sessions some people have, but this isn't to say it isn't relaxing overall. I don't think my experience is typical, but there are some points that may be painful no matter who you are just because of where they're located on the meridians (e.g., side of the pinky toe, tips of fingers). A good acupuncturist can work with you if you find a point painful or if you're concerned about what it might feel like (e.g., using very small needles or light needles pressure, using acupressure rather than needles for sensitive spots). I don't mention this scare anyone off; I think acupuncture can be very beneficial. Just be aware that some points can be sensitive.

In terms of finding someone, there are different styles of acupuncture (e.g., I tend to see people with a 5 element orientation) and practitioners with widely varying experience, so check around. Apart from asking friends for referrals, ask the practitioner to describe their style and their experience in treating your particular concerns. For depression in particular, I would look for someone who has a lot of experience dealing with chronic mental health issues rather than just acute physical ailments. I suppose that's obvious, but worth underscoring for those new to acupuncture.

Finally, the first session costs more and usually lasts about 90 minutes. Every first treatment I've had with a new practitioner has involved doing a lot of points on the back, so it can feel a bit like jumping in the deep end. If you're leery of needles or just one to try a point or two to get a feel, I wouldn't hesitate to ask for an initial consult before undergoing a first full treatment.

[alleyoxenfree]

Look at what your insurance covers, if you have insurance right now.   Some acupuncturists are affiliated with chiropractor's offices or wellness groups so that you can get some of it covered by insurance.  Also, some D.O.'s are trained in acupuncture, especially if they were trained outside the U.S. (Hong Kong, India) and insurance will cover them because they are doctors as well.  But chime to the recommendation that you should ask people you know for recommendations.  Since acupuncture is used for many things, you don't need to get too specific about why you wan to see someone, if you want to keep the reasons private.