sootgirl
Junior member
Posts: 77
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« on: November 17, 2009, 01:36:38 PM » |
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Fellow STEMs unite! & discuss?
I am in a STEM field, and while I really, really enjoy reading all of the comments, questions and stories on this site, I often find that the advice or guidelines do not pertain to me.
Actually, most of the time I have no idea what I'm even reading about.... I haven't ever thought about book contracts (unless I plan to write a text book some day) or created a dossier and no one has ever asked me for a writing sample (probably a good thing...). My applications are pretty straightforward and the only 'extras' I've ever been asked for is list of publications & presentations. I think it is just different in these fields.
I was just wondering if there were other STEM types out there on the job search or employed in the field and if there were any issues related to STEM type positions that bear discussion?
It seems that for the most part, we are on a slightly different schedule - apps not due until 12/31, and don't have the same excellent wikis that other groups have - or the same level of participation.
Any other STEMs out there?
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sciencephd
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« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2009, 02:38:27 PM » |
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The different branches of 'STEM' seem to have little in common in terms of the job search.
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I just hate it that I constantly have to like everyone and everything. -- moonstone
O, what a hateful feminist concoction!
Jews, communists, "lesbians", feminists and marihuana addicts --Pyshnov
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science_expat
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« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2009, 02:47:31 PM » |
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The different branches of 'STEM' seem to have little in common in terms of the job search.
And I think, proportionately, there's a greater number of us employed rather than searching... |
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Professor of Something Scarily Scientific Sounding
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ruralguy
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« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2009, 03:11:08 PM » |
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Too much to discuss...and its all been discussed before.
But, just quickly, some issues:
1. papers vs. books--of course, this is an issue in many social sciences and some humanities subjects as well.
There's really no equation for how many papers equal a book, but probably 2or 3 articles or so, unless 1 is very comprehensive, in a respectable journal would equal a respectable book. But this is so institution dependent, it s not worth taking the number too seriously, just the relative importance of articles in general.
2. grants---depending on institution and field, you may be expected to have succsful grants, particularly from certain government instutions, such as NSF, NEH or NASA, DOE, etc.
3. start up funds: most schools, even SLACs, will offer some sort of start up package for scientists (and others) who need some sort of lab space, equipment, student support, etc. The numbers vary wildly from
under 10,000 at underfunded SLACs to hundreds of thousands (or more!) at an R1.
4. research with students. I think every type of school expects scientists especially to be working with students on research, whether it be grad students or undergrads.
I am sure there are other issues as well.
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barred_owl
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« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2009, 03:30:55 PM » |
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Deadlines for applications seem, to me, to be as variable as those in any other discipline. Some deadlines have already passed, others will come up within the next few weeks, some are open-until-filled.
As ruralguy mentioned, having a track record of successful grants (even small ones, if you're just starting out) is important. I'll add that teaching experience--solo, create-your-own syllabus/course experience--is always a plus, and having a research agenda that is amenable to including undergraduate students is desirable at many institutions.
It seems a little odd to me, sootgirl, that you've been asked to submit separate lists of pubs and presentations. Isn't that list already incorporated into your CV?
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...I can't help rooting for the underdog underbird. |
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quasihumanist
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« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2009, 03:35:39 PM » |
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It seems a little odd to me, sootgirl, that you've been asked to submit separate lists of pubs and presentations. Isn't that list already incorporated into your CV?
In math, it's not so rare for a research department to ask for a separate list of publications which includes abstracts, for committee members who want more information than your CV but don't want to (and are familiar enough with your subfield not to need to) go through your research statement. |
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barred_owl
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« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2009, 03:44:29 PM » |
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It seems a little odd to me, sootgirl, that you've been asked to submit separate lists of pubs and presentations. Isn't that list already incorporated into your CV?
In math, it's not so rare for a research department to ask for a separate list of publications which includes abstracts, for committee members who want more information than your CV but don't want to (and are familiar enough with your subfield not to need to) go through your research statement. Thanks, quasihumanist. Makes sense to me (I'm in the "S" part of STEM, so not as familiar with the math job search angles). |
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...I can't help rooting for the underdog underbird. |
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pollinate
Can't manage the search function, yet still am a
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 4,061
Is the semester over yet?
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« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2009, 04:17:25 PM » |
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The different branches of 'STEM' seem to have little in common in terms of the job search.
And I think, proportionately, there's a greater number of us employed rather than searching... Even if STEM is proportionately better off than some other fields there still aren't that many jobs this year. Which is a pity, since the apps. I've been reading the last few days include some seriously good talent. The sort of talent that makes you want to hire several people.... |
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While "against stupidity, even the gods themselves contend in vain" may be true, it is not reason for us to just give up and let the stupid run this world.
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conjugate
Compulsive punster and insatiable reader, and
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 16,690
Tends to have warped sense of humor
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« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2009, 04:22:34 PM » |
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Speaking as a solid M myself, I'd be surprised if lots of deadlines hadn't already passed for Math jobs. Last year, I know, quite a few had deadlines of October 31st. Of course, many of the jobs suited for younger candidates—the non-tenure-track or temporary jobs, as well as many entry-level jobs at institutions that will consider new PhDs—are often posted much later. Mathjobs.org was a significant help to me, but in the end the jobs I was considered for did not (mostly) advertise there. Instead the AMS and MAA employment ads were in my case more productive in terms of phone interviews and campus visits. Now, Sootgirl's observation about the wikis is spot on; I rarely found anything about positions on wikis when I was on the market. Fortunately, I have good web skills, so I could find out quite a bit about different schools from the internet. One tip I will pass on (and have mentioned before on these threads): When you consider a job, compare cost of living and other circumstances at a web site such as Bestplaces to see what the differences are between the current location and the potential new location. Best wishes, Sootgirl, for success during this season. |
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
∀ε>0∃δ>0∋|x–a|<δ⇒|ƒ(x)-ƒ(a)|<ε |
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scampster
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 04:31:12 PM » |
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Since I am set in a cushy postdoc in a great city for a few years, I have a very fine mesh filter when it comes to looking at jobs in my field, so I'm not sure if they are up or down. But I'll apply for three this year. But one thing I did notice when scanning my orgs job listings is that there are tons of postdoc positions - it seems higher than last year. I wonder if the stimulus money bumped this number up?
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When you are a scientist your opinions and prejudices become facts. Science is like magic that way!
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galway
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 09:26:29 PM » |
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I'm glad to see this thread. Another issue I haven't seen addressed (I don't think comes up in social science/humanities searches) but am curious to folks thoughts on is author position on pubs. I think those fields tend to have fewer multiple author papers. Obviously being first author is best but how much value do papers where you're second out of two or 4th out of 8 (etc.) add to your application? I'm sure journal profile matters but in general what are the thoughts on this and how do you talk about these papers in your research statement?
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macaroon
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 09:43:36 PM » |
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I'm glad to see this thread. Another issue I haven't seen addressed (I don't think comes up in social science/humanities searches) but am curious to folks thoughts on is author position on pubs. I think those fields tend to have fewer multiple author papers. Obviously being first author is best but how much value do papers where you're second out of two or 4th out of 8 (etc.) add to your application? I'm sure journal profile matters but in general what are the thoughts on this and how do you talk about these papers in your research statement?
Not a whole lot, as far as I can tell. Productivity matters, of course. But the search committees are going to be very interested in what kind of research you'll be bringing to their school. It isn't so likely that you'll be "bringing" the project for which you are author 4 out of 8. It also won't be clear what skills you contributed to that paper. |
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sciencephd
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 11:07:30 PM » |
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I'm glad to see this thread. Another issue I haven't seen addressed (I don't think comes up in social science/humanities searches) but am curious to folks thoughts on is author position on pubs. I think those fields tend to have fewer multiple author papers. Obviously being first author is best but how much value do papers where you're second out of two or 4th out of 8 (etc.) add to your application? I'm sure journal profile matters but in general what are the thoughts on this and how do you talk about these papers in your research statement?
Mostly the research statement should be about plans for future reseach. I'm not sure how author fits into a question about the research statement. |
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I just hate it that I constantly have to like everyone and everything. -- moonstone
O, what a hateful feminist concoction!
Jews, communists, "lesbians", feminists and marihuana addicts --Pyshnov
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conjugate
Compulsive punster and insatiable reader, and
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 16,690
Tends to have warped sense of humor
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 11:19:50 PM » |
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There was a thread before on author order; if I remember right, we concluded that it varied greatly by discipline. For instance, in Math the authors are almost always listed in alphabetical order.
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
∀ε>0∃δ>0∋|x–a|<δ⇒|ƒ(x)-ƒ(a)|<ε |
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sootgirl
Junior member
Posts: 77
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« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2009, 09:05:43 AM » |
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I'm an "E" myself, and sciencephd and rural guy both have excellent points - the various STEM branches are almost as different from each other as they are from humanities, but they are somewhat closer..... so I think this thread still makes sense.... I wasn't sure there'd be enough of us to separate out the letters.
I agree, that in the STEM fields, there is generally an industrial option - which probably employs a larger percentage of our numbers - but probably not those on the academic path..... just my thoughts/
Yes, barred_owl, my publications are listed in my CV, but I don't tend to list presentations, except invited talks - just conference chair positions and memberships. I am very fortunate that my subfield has a lot of meetings - and I've been able to give a quite a few presentations. I figured that most people listed publications in the CV, so I was surprised at the request. Also, some places requested a list of references separately, though those are also listed in my CV.
The paper author position and paper count are good questions and ones I worry about. My dissertation work has been experimental - so while I have pubs from previous work, some are in archival organizational proceedings that aren't really journals (though I'd say they are of good quality), one is my MS thesis, and some are from work in a different E subfield. The really meaty "real" journal pubs from my current work will be Post dissertation - so I wonder if that will hurt me.
Going on the market ABD in this field also seems to be somewhat different than in other fields - from the job postings, they seem to put more faith in us thinking that we really will finish, but I really have no idea what the truth of the matter is.
I'm just happy to have others to discuss with!!!
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