socal_dreamer
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« on: November 15, 2009, 05:32:21 AM » |
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Hello UK forumites, I am hoping you can help answer my questions.
I have been browsing job ads, hoping to move this year or next for a decent position. I like my job well enough, but the location is getting me down. A position has come up in a UK university in a location I like and know well (certainly preferable to my current UK location). I initially dismissed it, as the job ad says Lecturer Grade 7, and I am currently on Grade 8. I wouldn't want to go backwards (if anything, I had hoped my next UK move would be to SL, so this is way below what I originally had in mind). But when I look at the dept, it is clear that it is an unusually good fit to my interests (better than my current dept) and would probably be an excellent place to work in terms of future research productivity since it is also higher rated and better funded than my current dept. So now I am wondering whether I should apply after all.
I emailed the dept head and asked whether there was any flexibility with the starting salary point. As I expected he said there may be some flexibility depending on the individual appointed but he couldn't make any guarantees. I have two questions:
1) Do you think it is possible to appoint someone on Grade 8 (ideally fairly high up that scale) when the job ad says Grade 7? I am not sure whether this is legally feasible. Of course, I would prefer to go for SL eventually, but a hike up Grade 8 would do for now, assuming I would then apply for SL in the near future. This is a much more expensive location than my current one, so I would need to feel sure that I could afford to live there.
2) Should I state outright in my cover letter that I am on Grade 8 and am looking for a position that is at least commensurate with my current one? I wonder if they should know that I could not move to a position on a lower grade. If there is no flexibilty with this, there is not much point in even proceeding with interviews etc, and I would not want to waste their or my time. On the other hand, is it better to say nothing, hope to get to interview, and then if they decide they really want me I would be in a stronger position to negotiate? Of course, this depends on the answer to my first question. If there is no flexibility, it's a non-starter anyway.
Hoping for your insights and advice.
Thanks.
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socal_dreamer
New member
Posts: 3
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« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2009, 05:40:49 AM » |
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PS - Just to clarify, at my university at least, Grade 7 is the old Lecturer A scale, and Grade 8 is what used to be Lecturer B.
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science_expat
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2009, 06:45:16 AM » |
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At my place we can only appoint at the grade that is advertised. To do otherwise would be seen as discriminatory as there might have been other applicants had the post been advertised at a higher grade.
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Professor of Something Scarily Scientific Sounding
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scotia
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2009, 04:28:45 PM » |
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At my place we can only appoint at the grade that is advertised. To do otherwise would be seen as discriminatory as there might have been other applicants had the post been advertised at a higher grade.
Ditto. This is true for appointments at both higher and lower grades. |
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babbinacara
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« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2009, 04:03:31 AM » |
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It's not one of your questions, but should this: But when I look at the dept, it is clear that it is an unusually good fit to my interests (better than my current dept) and would probably be an excellent place to work in terms of future research productivity since it is also higher rated and better funded than my current dept.
not conquer your starting grade fears? Is your concern just about your salary? |
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sandgrounder
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« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2009, 05:30:27 AM » |
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We're also not allowed to appoint at a grade higher than was advertised as the pool wouldn't then be a fair reflection of the potential applicants at that level. Normally, if something is just advertised at Lecturer A rather than A/B then it's a strong indication that the faculty has put financial constraints on the post.
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normative_
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« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2009, 07:19:40 AM » |
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Following up on Babbinacara's astute observation, you should look at this with some perspective on how you fit in. You're not going to get grade 8 now, but if your productivity will increase as a result of how well your research resonates with that of the rest of the department (think collaborative endeavours) and your greater happiness as a person, then you have reason to consider a switch that will pay off in the medium term. You can catch up on promotions once you're there and establishing facts that justify a promotion.
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Fortune favors the bold. Excellent analysis by Normative. All hail Normie! Normative, that was superb. |
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socal_dreamer
New member
Posts: 3
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« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2009, 03:26:17 PM » |
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Thanks, everyone. It seems pretty clear from your posts that this is a legally binding thing, and I can see the logic. Your explanations make a lot of sense. In reply to Babbinacara and Normative, I didn't make this clear in my original post, but I am reluctant to take another step back since I already did that to take up my current position. I went from Australian LB to UK Grade 7 (LA), as it was a slightly stronger dept. I have only just got myself back up to LB (Grade 8), so I am reluctant to repeat that, as I have already lost some time in terms of career progression (at this rate, I could work my way down to Graduate RA eventually!). Plus I believe it is not even possible to apply for SL from Grade 7, so I would not want to risk being stuck on that scale for an unknown length of time.
In any case, I think it would seem inappropriate for me to take a job on Grade 7 now, since I have a lot of experience (college teaching pre-PhD, 5 yrs postdoc in a US R1, and 4+ yrs lecturing since then), a string of peer-reviewed pubs with about a third in pretty good journals in my field, and funding, including 2 PhD studentships and a substantial overseas Research Council grant with a colleague. In my field, that would seem rather a lot for someone on Grade 7.
Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
Thanks again all -- very helpful to know what the situation is.
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science_expat
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« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2009, 04:44:05 PM » |
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I wouldn't be so sure about the promotion thing - if you meet the criteria for SL or Reader it shouldn't matter where you are starting from.
Good luck in any case.
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Professor of Something Scarily Scientific Sounding
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drspouse
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« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2009, 10:17:46 AM » |
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I'm surprised at the lack of flexibility in others' institutions - we've always been told that if there was money, and the right candidate, we could appoint at a higher grade.
Of course those are two big ifs!
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babbinacara
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« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2009, 12:15:57 PM » |
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Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
I wouldn't be sure they will ever be advertising for anyone at any level at any time in the future...hiring freezes are spreading like the plague. |
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science_expat
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« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2009, 12:19:01 PM » |
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Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
I wouldn't be sure they will ever be advertising for anyone at any level at any time in the future...hiring freezes are spreading like the plague. They sure are.... |
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Professor of Something Scarily Scientific Sounding
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qrypt
Qryptacular & not really a Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 5,210
the great vampire squid round the face of humanity
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« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2009, 02:49:07 PM » |
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Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
I wouldn't be sure they will ever be advertising for anyone at any level at any time in the future...hiring freezes are spreading like the plague. They sure are.... Why do I keep getting pestered to be on hiring panels, then?? |
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"I'm tired of being your love slave!"
"Does that mean I'm not going to get my coffee?"
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science_expat
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« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2009, 02:52:34 PM » |
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Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
I wouldn't be sure they will ever be advertising for anyone at any level at any time in the future...hiring freezes are spreading like the plague. They sure are.... Why do I keep getting pestered to be on hiring panels, then?? For permanent internally funded posts? |
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« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 02:53:13 PM by science_expat »
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Professor of Something Scarily Scientific Sounding
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qrypt
Qryptacular & not really a Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 5,210
the great vampire squid round the face of humanity
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« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2009, 03:05:58 PM » |
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Oh well, I am sure they will be advertising at a level that's right for me at some point in the future. I will just have to be patient....
I wouldn't be sure they will ever be advertising for anyone at any level at any time in the future...hiring freezes are spreading like the plague. They sure are.... Why do I keep getting pestered to be on hiring panels, then?? For permanent internally funded posts? Not many of those, but not zero of them either. |
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"I'm tired of being your love slave!"
"Does that mean I'm not going to get my coffee?"
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