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[jonesey]

From The New York Times:

...this fall as most of New York City’s community colleges were forced to abandon their all-are-welcome admissions policies for the first time.

“Enrollment has been growing steadily, but this was a tidal wave for us this fall,” said the college’s president, Gail O. Mellow, pointing out that the student body had risen by almost 50 percent in the past decade. “I’ve never seen anything like this. We used to pretty much be an open door.”

Historically, the city’s six community colleges, which are part of the City University of New York, have taken applications until about a week before the start of classes, allowing time for students to apply for financial aid, get immunized and register for classes.

But this year, all but one of them had to close admissions earlier.

LaGuardia stopped accepting applications on July 30. The Borough of Manhattan Community College stopped in late June, while Bronx, Hostos and Queensborough Community Colleges cut off applications in the first half of August. Kingsborough Community College did not change the application period.

[der_gadfly]

seems that a lot more people are looking at less expensive alternatives. Where is it written that a CC MUST take every applicant? and up to the last minute at that?

[magistra]

That's CUNY's tradition.  It's open enrollment to anyone who's graduated a NYC high school.  As traditionally there were always seats, why not keep enrollment open until they were filled?  That's their mission, after all.  And the majority of their students are first gen, and so aren't sure about how things work, whether they'll have enough money, etc.  There are still those who remember when they were free, and are unhappy that CUNY now charges tuition.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

And the majority of their students are first gen,

Is this still true?

CCs have been marketing themselves as 100% equivalent to the first 2 years of 4-year schools in every respect except cost.  As a result, even students who can afford a 4-year and in past years would have never considered CCs are now going there.  This is fine, until we discover that underprivileged students are being closed out of CCs by  enrollment from upper-middle-class kids who could afford the state 4-years. - DvF

[cgfunmathguy]

And the majority of their students are first gen,

Is this still true?

CCs have been marketing themselves as 100% equivalent to the first 2 years of 4-year schools in every respect except cost.  As a result, even students who can afford a 4-year and in past years would have never considered CCs are now going there.  This is fine, until we discover that underprivileged students are being closed out of CCs by  enrollment from upper-middle-class kids who could afford the state 4-years. - DvF

Except that many state 4-years aren't open admission and haven't been for years. When college enrollment overall went up, many state 4-years had to start turning away students, who then ended up at CCs. In many cases, there just aren't enough seats to take everyone.

[larryc]

This is a real shame. CCs are the most democratic portion of our system of higher education.   

[dolljepopp]

I agree, larry. And as a former CUNY CC instructor, this was really sad to read.

[mad_doctor]

I hear this is happening all over.  Most attirbute it to the job market being so poor for young people.  If I was a young person, I'd probably think the same thing - no work, there's nothing else to do, and the government will give me money to go to school, so why not?

[kedves]

And the majority of their students are first gen,

Is this still true?

CCs have been marketing themselves as 100% equivalent to the first 2 years of 4-year schools in every respect except cost.  As a result, even students who can afford a 4-year and in past years would have never considered CCs are now going there.  This is fine, until we discover that underprivileged students are being closed out of CCs by  enrollment from upper-middle-class kids who could afford the state 4-years. - DvF

I don't work at a CC but am interested in them, so I looked around for information.

Nationally, 39% of community-college students are first-generation college students (American Association of Community Colleges).   That is about the same proportion of first-generation college students among first-semester, full-time students at 4-year institutions in 1971 (38.5%).  By 2005, that proportion for 4-year institutions had declined to 15.9% (UCLA CIRP 2007, pdf).   "First-generation" is typically defined in the research literature as parents' not having a college degree; a parent's associate degree removes the student from the category.  While CC students are not predominately first-generation, they are probably also not students who would attend a 4-year school to begin.  For example, 35% are 30 years old or more. About one-third enroll with the goal of transferring to a 4-year college, but accomplishing that goal and finishing college is a challenge.  Nearly half say they have enrolled for personal interest and in two years after beginning, are no longer in college and have not obtained a degree or certificate (NCES report 2008).  Community colleges meet many needs, only one of which is to start students on a 4-year college path.

I couldn't find any information yet on how the mixture of students at CCs is being affected by the recession overall.  Increased demand is not met with increased supply of seats in classrooms.  But at least in the case of the CC in the linked article, there are still no admission criteria, only a first-come, first-served limit.  Are any CCs starting to set admission criteria or set priorities in other ways besides who registers first?

[daniel_von_flanagan]

So it was never true.

I'm not sure I agree with this:

While CC students are not predominately first-generation, they are probably also not students who would attend a 4-year school to begin.

The conditions you cite hold for many 4-year students as well.  - DvF

[kedves]

The proportion of first-generation college students anywhere, at any type of institution, has decreased as an increasing proportion of Americans have some college.  As of 2007, 54.4% of all Americans age 25 or older had some college or more, and 27.5% had a bachelor's degree or more (US Census P20-560).  There is a cumulative effect, leaving fewer of the next generation to be first-generation.  However, a larger proportion of first-generation students begin at CCs than at 4-year schools. Here are some numbers comparing consistent categories (part-time and full-time together), although they are from a decade ago:

In 1995–96, 47 percent of all beginning postsecondary students were first generation—that is, neither of their parents had more than a high school education (figure 9). The proportion of students who were first generation declined as institution level increased—from 73 percent at less-than-2-year institutions, to 53 percent at 2-year institutions, to 34 percent at 4-year institutions (Kojaku and Nuñez 1998).  NCES Special Analysis 2001--Students Whose Parents Did Not Go to College.

[magistra]

The CUNY system is a little different from a "normal" CC, though.  There are both 2-year and 4-year colleges in the system, plus the other schools in the SUNY system (both 2-year and 4-year).  The application and recruitment are very much aimed at the city population, not the population at large.  They really wanted students in the place that was best for them, with the full understanding that that usually meant whatever was closest to their home.

The application was designed for city high schools; it's the same one for the entire system.  It's very much geared towards getting the city high school students in based on grades and where they want to be.  It can be a challenge for students from outside the system to get in simply because the transcripts, etc. don't "fit".  But they'd be looking at a 4-year school anyway.

The 4-years don't cost much, and are far more prestigious, so that's where the upper-middle-class white kids are going to look.  They'll want Hunter or Baruch or Queens, not BMCC.  There might well be some downward pressure, but I doubt the demographics have changed much -- it's just harder to get a spot, which was what the article was about.

[der_gadfly]

My CC has a class cap size (because of a faculty union contract), no way to add TT lines, and even adding a course section for 30+ students requires signatures authorizing the adjunct salary (which is pretty poor BTW) from about half-a-dozen suits.

Do more with less is the seeming mantra, but the reality is that there is only so much space, so many chairs, and so many hours in the day.... Once the 'cap' has been reached, one cannot provide an education to all: there is an old adage in the business world - first come, first serve. Limited seating.

[conjugate]

My CC has a record high enrollment, and we are facing a shortage of available instructors for developmental courses.  Many of these students are indeed avoiding the job market; others are looking to add to their credentials so that they can get a better salary and/or a leg up on the competition.

My institution is still open enrollment but bursting at the seams.  I think we can't decide unilaterally to put a cutoff on our incoming students, though; we're part of a state system, and that system gets to make the decisions on whether we can turn away students or not, I believe.  Given budget cuts, I suspect they won't turn down any warm-blooded source of tuition money.  And they're talking about even more furlough days next year, which makes me suspect there won't be any additional money for faculty.  I guess the friendly small-class environment is about to change.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

The point is that though that "1st-gen college student" does not seem to be a useful indicator of whether the student will choose a 2-year over a 4-year.  Roughly 2.5 times as many student attend 4-year schools as attend 2-years.  (This is as of last year, and includes the recent bump in CC attendance.) Even if CCs have twice as high a percentage of 1st-gens as 4-years, it still must be the case that most 1st-gens opt to attend a 4-year over a 2-year, since 2.5/2>1. - DvF