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[bijou]

I'm a recent graduate of a well-regarded MFA program, with a BA from an R1 school.

As a master's student, I taught a variety of humanities classes for two years.  I've also worked and volunteered in the field of international education (though with high school-age students) and I have some public affairs experience.

I'm aware that the field of academic advising is saturated with candidates like me, and ones with much better credentials, so my question is this: should I give up on pursuing a position in advising/admissions for the time being?  And if not, does anyone have any advice on how I can market my skills? 

I don't know whether to assume that the fact that I've applied for at least a dozen of these positions and heard nothing means I'm completely unqualified, or whether it's just a numbers game.

And as an addendum: many of these positions want experience with BANNER, OASIS, or similar programs.  Is there any way I can acquire competence in these packages without working at a school that uses them?  I'm quite computer-savvy, but I don't know how to open this particular door.

[simplesimon]

I’ll comment on admissions and let others here offer feedback on advising.

Without seeing your letter and resume it is difficult to say what kind of impression your application materials are making.  If you have one or more friends who work in admissions (and presumably you do if you want to work in this area) you should share your materials with them for feedback.  At the very least, you might have one or more informational interviews with the admissions folks at your current institution or alma mater.  Are you familiar with professional organizations like AACRAO, NAGAP, etc?

Obviously, an admissions office wants someone with experience in recruitment and enrollment; they also want people with experience in relevant applications like BANNER.  If you do not have experience with the specific application they mention, you should be able to demonstrate proficiency with other databases.  Doing so will indicate your familiarity the nature of the work and suggest you would be a quick study should be brought on board. 

Are you looking to work in undergraduate or graduate admissions?  Do you appreciate the difference between these two?  Have you thought about how the profile of the institution (church affiliation, HBCU, women’s college, technological institute, public, private, etc.) might influence the admissions process from your perspective, and are you prepared to answer questions along this line?  Does your application letter reflect your savvy in this regard?

Diversity is the buzz-word in admissions.  Again, you have to demonstrate an appreciation of this.  Have you done anything in your current position to underscore your commitment to diversity?  And remember, diversity is not just about race.

In addition to dealing with students, undergraduate admission also involves dealing with parents and guidance counselors--lots of them.  Can you prove that you are up to this beyond simply saying ‘yes’?

Increasingly, admissions people need to understand financial aid and how it is used to help compose the incoming class.  Obviously, you know students receive financial aid, but if you are looking for a mid to senior level post, you should demonstrate some expert knowledge.  Have you managed any portion of a financial aid budget before?

A mid to senior admissions person will be expected to talk intelligently about the discount rate at their institution.  Can you do that?

Can you raise money?  Some schools don’t always make it clear up front, but many now expect all senior administrators to help raise money.  Have you won grants before?  Are you familiar with the grants associated with the field of admissions and student affairs that you might apply for?

If you have zero experience in admissions, many people will have a hard time taking your application seriously.  Are you willing to start at the very bottom?  Can you see yourself as an Admissions Counselor or an Assistant Director of Admissions?  These jobs do not pay very well and they can be a grind (lots of fall travel for example).  The work is not glamorous but doing it is how admissions folks pay their dues and climb the ladder.  As I have said in previous posts, the narrative you unfold in your application letter must make it appear as if your application to a given vacancy is a logical progression in your career path.  If it appears as if you are making a career switch or coming to this position out of the blue your application will be eclipsed by more compelling applicants.

Good luck and feel free to send me a private message for more info (I often say things in a PM that I would not post publicly).

[sibyl]

I'll weigh in from a mostly-advising perspective.

If you've only applied to a dozen institutions you haven't applied to enough to decide to give up.  As you know, the field is saturated, and Zharkov's Law says that the number of applications you should expect to send is very close to the number of applications received for a typical job in your field.  I would say that your Zharkov Number is over 100 and probably closer to 200. 

If you don't have specific experience with Banner and they want Banner experience more than anything else, then you aren't going to make the first cut because they will have several applicants with Banner experience.  Unfortunately there's no way to know whether they are saying "Banner experience preferred" because it'll be nice for them not to train you or because they really need someone who can make Banner go.  (Banner is one of the more complicated SISes I've used, and I've used 11.)

Therefore, the best way to market yourself is to highlight your strengths.  There probably aren't that many people with an MFA, teaching experience, public affairs experience, experience with high schoolers, and experience with international education.  You just have to keep putting your best foot forward until you find someone who wants that particular foot -- maybe an institution with a strong program in the area in which you have an MFA, an institution that works with a lot of high school students through a pre-college program, etc.  Do your homework -- don't emphasize your HS work unless you know that there IS a pre-college program -- but keep putting yourself forward until you get there.

Oh, and on the question of how you get Banner experience:  You are right that the best way to get it is through the place where you work; since you don't have that, consider volunteer or temp work.  Lots of admissions offices need data processing help during the crunch season; try calling your alma mater and offering to help, and use your network to find connections.  And if you can't get any experience, try saying something to the effect that although you don't have specific experience with Banner, you have used several other relational databases like Jenzabar CX and EX or PeopleSoft (or whatever you actually have used) and you expect to be able to adapt to a new database easily.

Good luck.

[der_gadfly]

I'll weigh in from a mostly-advising perspective.

(snip)... and Zharkov's Law says that the number of applications you should expect to send is very close to the number of applications received for a typical job in your field. 

I get the basic math but let's say, for example, in a field that has 35 openings annually, and 100 candidates, one must have a 3 year timeframe?

As for the BANNER issue (for OP), the system is a bear until it is fully lit up and functioning. It is no better/worse than any other database system. But I do agree that one must have some demonstrable experience with something similar, else you application will not receive priority attention. If you want to 'break-in' to student affairs, you may have to aim pretty low (salary-wise) as many entry-level positions pay in the high 20s to low 30s.

[higherandhigher]

Some people reading your application may not see you as being genuinely interested in advising/admissions as a career (with teaching and MFA, etc.). In your application materials, you should make a convincing case for how this is something you are committed to and how this interest came about/developed.

[sibyl]

I'll weigh in from a mostly-advising perspective.

(snip)... and Zharkov's Law says that the number of applications you should expect to send is very close to the number of applications received for a typical job in your field. 

I get the basic math but let's say, for example, in a field that has 35 openings annually, and 100 candidates, one must have a 3 year timeframe?

Yep.  The Law doesn't have a sunset provision.

[bijou]

First of all, thanks to everyone that has responded.

A couple of things I should have said earlier:

1.  I do have teaching experience - and I loved teaching - but I don't hold a PhD, nor do I plan to get one,which means I'm more or less out of the running for most full-time, tenure-track teaching positions, and I'm in line behind a lot of unemployed PhD holders for even adjunct positions.

2.  Yes, I do have an MFA, and in a perfect world I'd be able to support myself with freelance work in my field (it's an MFA with relatively practical applications, if such a thing can be said to exist).  However, that will take a considerable amount of time to build up to, and in the meantime I'm seeking a job which I will enjoy doing.

3.  I am junior!  Very junior!  The junior-est of the junior!  Let's just say I finished my MFA straight out of undergrad, and have never held a full-time job before.  I have no problem paying my dues, being on the bottom of the totem pole, or making a low salary.  (I mean, if someone out there wants to pay me six figures to be an academic advisor, cool.  Call me.  We'll talk.)

I am well aware that I haven't applied to a sufficient number of positions to draw any conclusions yet, but I thank you all for your advice.  I'll take everything said here into account. 

And since I'm currently unemployed, I'm reading everything I can find on academic advising and how to tailor my applications.  So far NACADA's website has been great, and now I'm going through HigherEdJobs.  If you know of any articles or threads on the Chronicle website / forums (or elsewhere) that might be of use, link away.

Two small, nitpicky questions: every site I read recommends that I put in my best effort to find out who the chair of the hiring committee is and address my cover letter directly to them.  Is it best just to e-mail HR and ask?  I'm afraid of addressing it wrong based on a Web site that's not up-to-date, or misunderstanding institutional hierarchy, or some such mistake, and having it be a major faux pas.

And finally, does my resume have to be one page for administrative positions, or can I go a bit longer?

[london1]

....Two small, nitpicky questions: every site I read recommends that I put in my best effort to find out who the chair of the hiring committee is and address my cover letter directly to them.  Is it best just to e-mail HR and ask?  I'm afraid of addressing it wrong based on a Web site that's not up-to-date, or misunderstanding institutional hierarchy, or some such mistake, and having it be a major faux pas.

And finally, does my resume have to be one page for administrative positions, or can I go a bit longer?

For administrative jobs, you may be given the name of a specific person to address your cover letter to or you may not.  I don't think I would bother asking HR for the name of the hiring director.  Likely HR is collecting all of the resumes and will forward all of them (or nearly all) to the hiring director.  Others on the fora might have a different opinion/experience here.

Your resume or vita does NOT need to be a single page.  This *rule* does not apply for higher education whether it be faculty or administrative positions.  Since you are "really junior" as you say, I would think your resume would be no more than two pages, no?

Good luck to you and keep us posted.

[happycamper]

bijou,

To tack on to the advice from sibyl (all good) on advising positions, here are a few things that you could play up on your resume:

• The outside-of-class stuff that you did for students in the classes that you taught - holding office hours/tutorial sessions, making recommendations whether they should to drop your course or soldier on, discussing how your course fit into the students' long-term plans/goals, "Is this major right for me?" conversations, referring students to other campus resources (counseling, tutoring, disability services), etc.  These are all routine issues that advisors address, too.
• Mentoring/training experience - much of advising is giving students the direction and information that they need to make good choices, without making the choice for them...just as good mentors and trainers do.  Heck, I even threw in some of the most recent athletic coaching experience that I had when I was applying.
• Policy enforcement - Interpreting, explaining, and enforcing rules written by someone else is an everyday occurrence in the life of an advisor - this can also tap into your teaching experience (i.e., enforcing your syllabus or the department's pre-requisites for a course that you taught, etc.).  Were you ever an RA in a dorm? That would be a fantastic way to bring that experience in.

I also second the idea of looking at temp positions - not only in Admissions/Advising, but any Student Affairs or Student Records area.  I got my current position in advising because I had already been working as a temp for the Registrar for about 6 mos. when a full-time advising position opened up unexpectedly. I was already familiar with University policies and procedures (and happened to have an undergrad degree in the discipline to which the position was assigned), so I was a shoe-in when they needed someone to start in less than two weeks.

Two pages for a resume is certainly okay, and you may want to think about putting your relevant experience up front with the degree info closer to the end (hook 'em with your transferable skills!).  I usually had 2 pages of resume, plus a separate page for references.

Good luck!
hc

[sinatra]

OP, you ask: Is it best just to e-mail HR and ask for the name of the search committee chair? 
Personally, I would do one of two things. If the applications are headed to the HR department, I would search for the director's name on the institution's website and use hu as the addressee. If not, I would call and indicate that you have no intention of contacting the search chair, but that you would like to have that person's name for the simple purpose of addressing the cover letter to a live human being. In my experience the overwhelming majority of places are happy to provide it. Of the rest, their main concern is to protect the search chair from a volume of calls and e-mails from applicants who want to check the status of the search or who will try to convince the chair to give their resumes a second look after they have been cut. A simple read of the job search thread will show you the number of people who get anxious well ahead of any decisions or even before the deadline for applications has closed.

[renee]

Another thing to consider is that institutions vary wildly on what they view as ideal credentials for academic advising positions. I can think of institutions that like degrees in counseling/higher ed, etc and I can think of ones that could care less about counseling/higher ed degrees and prefer MFAs, MAs in disciplines, and even PhDs. Pay attention to the backgrounds of the other people in the advising office at that particular school to figure out how to best play up your strengths.

[minidonut]

As someone who is also considering a move to academic advising, I have a rather blunt question; I hope it doesn't come off as rude, because I only ask in order to try to make a practical decision.

I have a PhD in the humanities, and am soon looking at unemployment when my postdoc ends.  The chances of my landing a TT position are slim and none, and I am seriously looking at the feasibility of a move to administration, either in advising or study abroad programs.  While I would die to remain a full-time faculty member, I do realize that I love working with students (and, unless I'm hopelessly deluded, the students really seem to love me back), and that some administrative positions actually allow for teaching as well.

Like the OP, however, I realize that, with no actual experience, I'm just one more unqualified application waiting to get placed at the bottom of the pile, and that the best-case scenario would be that I'd be able to start at the very bottom, pay my dues, and work my way up.  And this would obviously entail a substantial pay cut for me.

So, my (straightforward) questions are:
1.  Assuming one is willing to take the substantial pay cut, and start in the high 20s-low 30s, what can one actually hope to ultimately earn (assuming excellent job performance and concomitant advancement), and over what period of time?

2.  How much is age going to play into the equation?  I'm already in my late 40s, and wonder if this will be an impediment in terms of a) even getting in the door ("we can't hire someone in their late 40s with a PhD for a position designed for someone in their 20s) and/or b) hoping to advance ("we can't advance this guy/gal, because they're already within spitting distance of retirement - why invest the time/energy/$$ of grooming someone for a position, when they're going to be out the door in a matter of years?")

I fully understand the MMMV, and that there are no definite answers; however, having gone down the PhD path without having asked (and demanded the answers for) the questions I should have asked, I don't want to be foolish again, and embark upon something that is unlikely or only with great difficulty/serendipity going to work out.

And thanks in advance (with apologies for length).

[michigander]

I think that previous posters have done a great job responding to the OP.  Here are some comments for Minidonut:

I have no global answers for you.  I have my own life experience to share having changed careers in my fifties from student housing to academic advising.  My experience is limited in that I was unable to be geographically mobile.  My view of the situation as a candidate and a search committee member informs me that it won't be a problem at most places for you to be changing careers in your forties.  I was hired into an entry level advising position at a time when I was morbidly obese, 56, and sporting a full head of grey hair.  People didn't seem to care.  Be warned, though, that entry level advisors at small privates, at least in my geographic area, typically start in the mid to high 20s or very low 30s.  I'm now 61, no longer obese due to surgery, have less grey hair due to advancing male pattern baldness, am still unable to be geographically mobile, and I'm having no problem getting interviews for better jobs though, so far, there have been no offers.  Jobs for experienced advisors at large state schools in my area pay in the mid to high 30s with an occasional possibility in the low 40s.

In my locale, the market is flooded with wannabe advisors.  To get interviews, your resume or CV needs to show a history of both high tech and high touch experience including high level competence using email, course delivery systems like Blackboard and Moodle, the MS-Office suite, and student information databases like Banner, plus quality time one-on-one student interactions as an instructor, tutor, counselor, or advisor.  Many schools will value experience with online instruction and/or advising.  Some schools will look for professional involvement in NACADA or regional and local organizations; others won't care.  Some will be looking for experience with social media; others won't care.  Some schools will combine traditional recruiting and admissions responsibilities with advising.  You'll need to know what these are and whether or not you're willing to assume them.  Feel free to PM me if you like.

[minidonut]

Thanks, Michigander, for that very helpful response.

But just to, once again, risk possible rudeness - from your experience (if you know), do the average salaries you give seem to hold true in general, or do they vary greatly by institution type, region, etc.?  (I'm assuming that geography matters, of course, but just asking.)

[michigander]

Minidonut,

Because I'm not able to be geographically mobile, I've not researched salaries outside of SE Michigan.  Just once I looked at a couple of jobs in a southern state because my family is there, and I was shocked to see that the salaries were even lower.