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[aandsdean]

Dear All,

I need your help.

As readers of “dog” threads on the fora know, the aands household is the home of six dogs.  

We have three females, Bernie, Lucy, and Sophie.  Bernie is the senior dog in the house.  We rescued Lucy from the streets of Previous City in the spring of 2007.  She’s a small shepherd mix, about 40 pounds, black and tan.  She’s very affectionate, sweet, and cooperative, in every way but one.

She cannot cope with the fact that Bernie is the senior dog.  There have been tensions for about 18 months, but recently they have become very serious, with some significant fighting.  Both dogs have injured each other.  It’s very upsetting and tumultuous.

I’ve done a good bit of reading, and it appears that there’s basically no way to resolve this situation with both dogs in the same house.  Bernie is the senior girl and has the superior claim on us.  The local, wonderful, no-kill shelter is full.  We need to rehome Lucy, and we need to do it soon, or I’m afraid we’ll have to euthanize her.

This is heartbreaking.  For one thing, Lucy loves me the best, and is very attached to me.  She’s very sweet except when she goes psycho on Bernie.  It’s a tragedy.  We will do almost anything to save her.  She has never shown any hint of aggression towards humans or, really, the other dogs in the house.

So, here’s the offer.  Lucy needs to be rehomed.  I will deliver her to you anywhere defined by the circle of the Twin Cities, Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Lincoln, NE.  She will be current on her shots.  
She’s a GREAT dog.  I am at a conference now, but can send pictures on Thursday to anyone who is interested.  

PLEASE, if you’re interested, help us save Lucy.  We love her but we can’t keep her.  We need to figure out what to do, and we need to figure it out soon.

Thanks, aandsdean

[hegemony]

Aandsdean, I've rehomed many animals for others, and here's my advice, for what it's worth.  Compose an e-mail about Lucy, saying you have too many dogs and you need to find a new home for her.  You can say she needs to be an only dog, but I would elide the part about "both dogs have injured each other" and the like -- it sounds scary.  Don't even suggest the idea of dogs injuring each other!   Just emphasize that she needs a new home without suggesting that she might be dangerous.  (I am assuming she'd never be dangerous to humans.)  Tell the story of how you found and rescued her, her sad state when you got her, how she became the happy dog she is today.  Attach a photo or two -- this part is crucial.  Put the photos in the e-mail where the person can see them right away without even having to click on a link.  Then send the e-mail to everyone you know.  Instead of saying, "Can you take this dog?", say, "Can you pass this on to others you know, so we can find a home for this dog?"  That will motivate people to pass it on rather than deleting it in a spirit of guilt.  Add a pitiful little line about the shelters being full and how you desperately don't want to have to have her put down, all of which are true.  Then send the e-mail out.  This has the best chance of any strategy I've experienced.

You'll also want to get on the waiting list at the no-kill shelter, and try to make contact with the more informal shelter-rescue network that exists in many towns.  Sometimes the shelters in adjacent towns will have shorter waiting lists.  Best of luck to you and Lucy.

[outlier]

We have a Lucy-like dog, too, so I sympathize. If you email me photos and stories I'll post them to my Flickr account; I've helped find homes for dogs that way and I have a bit of a network. I was recently looking for a home for a dog who'd been abused and neglected (who has since been adopted into a wonderful home), and a forumite put me in touch with a rescue group in her area, which is within your range. That person may answer this, too, or I can pass on the info.

Last summer I re-homed a shelter dog out of my area; a friend posted his photo and information on her college's electronic bulletin board. I had expressions of interest within a day and had to choose from two good possibilities.

If you have a big Facebook network or know someone who does, have them post her photo and story, too.

While I probably wouldn't say "she's injured our other dog" or "she fights" in the initial posting, but rather just that she'd do best as an only dog, I would be completely open in discussions with potential adopters. People need to know as much as possible what they're getting into. But "completely open" includes an open discussion of the idea that Lucy might do okay as the top dog if another dog is introduced later. Even though she's attached to you, you may just have too many dogs for her, and the problem behavior might just be triggered by an environment that is stressful to her. Any chance of getting her a competent behavior evaluation in your area?

[aandsdean]

Thanks to both of you for your great ideas.  I will put them to work as soon as I can, which probably means next weekend.

Outlier, Lucy's issues started in the spring of 08 when she was just with Bernie and Rocco, our little boy dog.  My wife was teaching in another state, and had George.  When Lucy came into the house it was Bernie, George, and Rocco, and everything was fine for a year.  It's hard to tell what triggered the issue, but my suspicion is that as Lucy got older (I'd guess she was a little less than a year old when she came to the house) her need to be the top dog got more intense, which led to the behavior.

The nearest competent behaviorist to us is a 3-hour drive, unfortunately.  I'd be glad to take one trip there, but multiple trips would be a huge challenge.

BTW, I agree about both not highlighting Lucy's issues in an initial post and being totally clear with potential adopters.  She would be a splendid only dog.  She's a great dog.  If she had other problems this whole issue would be much much easier to resolve.

Outlier, can you pm me your e-mail address?  I know it's somewhere in my inbox, but it's somewhere 1500 msgs deep!

Thanks again.

[outlier]

Done. Also, I mentioned in Anthroid's thread that I've developed outlines of disciplinary and interdisciplinary student projects related to shelters and rescues, but the lack of competent behavior evaluators gives me another idea. From the radius you posted, it looks like you might be in puppy mill territory (I'm on the edge of it), where attitudes toward animals among the general population often contribute to overpopulation, euthanasia, and neglect and abuse. If your college has pre-veterinary students, maybe some would be interested in a collaboration with education, psychology and business students to set up a sort of animal behavior clinic and humane education organization. Of course, developing, publicizing and marketing it would require some research, because students are not experts or professionals, but they could be a resource to do humane education in general and maybe do some basic obedience training and provide access to resources. Shelters and humane societies train volunteers to do behavior evaluations, and I think it's Emily Weiss who has developed a system of evaluating "canine-ality" that is simple enough to be used by volunteers. I think both Maddie's Fund and Best Friends Animal Society have lots of resources for people who want to do local work, and students could apply and practice their skills and prepare for graduate or professional school or employment by developing and focusing a project like this.

[catmom]

Get Lucy a website (www.dogster.com), lot's of pictures, lots of cutesy details and her story. Mark her as adoptable and then post her story on the forum where people will see it.

[biomancer]

A&SDean, I wish we could help.  We're rather far out of your area (we're in the Pittsburgh-Cleveland-Buffalo triangle), and Biopuppy is a sufficiently dominant individual that I don't think things would go any better for Lucy here.  If we do get another dog, it's going to have to be one who is content to be the omega-dog, because Biopup won't have it any other way.

...<sigh>... it's being such a rough day in the world of forumites' canines, it seems.

[collegekidsmom]

Could you give some more details about Lucy here? How old do you think she is-(I think you said about two)? Does she have any medical issues of other issues that might make her a more expensive pet? Does she like to go in the car, like children, or cats for instance. If you described her in more detail-even how she looks or other issues of temperment, the posting may speak to that one person who could give her a great home. Often, some detail catches someone's eye.

[isotope]

My vet (and most others, I think) have a free bulletin board for adoption notices.  If you go to the trouble of putting together a nice email or web posting, it likely wouldn't take long to put a flyer together.

I'm even further away than biomancer, but she sounds like a good one for my house.  Got an old shepherd (15 in human years) who I think may do well with a friend after our other smaller dog passed last Christmas.  She seems to perk up a bit at with my mom's dog.  A 40 pound shepherd mix sounds like the dog I grew up with.

I'm pulling for you. 

[pink_]

She might well do better in a house with a male dog (or without a dog).  Some dogs, and some breeds, are better at same-sex households than others.  Females, I'm told by our trainer, tend to have more trouble with this than males.

[southerntransplant]

I've taken in re-homed dogs before and wish I could help here, but we've already got two who are in the midst of sorting out their pack order. I don't think Lucy would do well with that, plus I am further away than biomancer.

Just here to say that I'm pulling for you.

[aandsdean]

Thanks everyone for your support and good ideas.  I appreciate them and will get on them.  I'm also grateful for the various PM's I've gotten.  This is a very difficult situation.

Outlier, yes, right in the middle of puppy-mill territory.  Attitudes towards animals are very strongly affected by farm culture, that is for sure.

Pink_, Lucy gets along extremely well with the boys--not a hint of a problem.  I too have heard that the dominance issue is bigger with females than males, and it's true in our little pack that the males have almost no conflict with each other, while the girls are, let's just say, tetchy.  But this thing between Bernie and Lucy has gotten out of hand, and it's horrible.

Collegekidsmom, your points are good.  Lucy seems to like kids--she's kind of a runner, and when she's gotten out of the house or the yard, EVERY SINGLE TIME she's been found playing with kids in the neighborhood.  I'm more than 90% sure that she would never be aggressive towards humans.

When we got her, what happened was that I was driving on a very busy street in Previous City, and she ran out from the sidewalk in front of my car.  I stopped in the middle of the street, picked her up, and carried her back to the sidewalk.  She immediately ran out in the street again and jumped into my car.  She's been my girl ever since.

You can see why I'm very upset by the whole situation.

[suec25]

I'm a long time lurker, but this thread motivated me to post for the first time.  :)

I don't have advice for how to find a new home for her.  With this economy, it's not a good time to rehome a pet- as you found out, the shelters are swamped.  I wonder if you can put her on a waiting list for the no-kill shelter? 

I don't know if you have the time/energy to try a few more things with her, but if you do, then I have some suggestions.  I have been working in an animal shelter for the past several years and often work with dogs with behavior problems including aggression. 

First, go to the behaviorist.  Even one visit can be very helpful.  Before you go, read up on what to expect so that you can ask the right questions.

The behaviorist may prescribe something like doggie Prozac.  This has worked wonders for many dogs I know, but may not be enough to fully solve the problem.  Example from very personal experience: My parents have three dogs, and when the youngest one hit ~14 months, he started going after the oldest.  They fought approximately 2-3 times a month.  After he was put on Prozac, this number was reduced to about once every few months.  Equally importantly, while the dogs were fighting, the intensity of the fights was much reduced, and my parents can usually break up the fight very easily.  Obviously not ideal, but it was good enough that my parents felt that they could manage it.  You may be able to get Prozac by asking your vet, but he may want you to see a behaviorist first.  Keep in mind that if you try this, getting the dose right is very important.  My parents tried to increase the dose since the lowest level worked so well, but for some reason that actually made things worse.  Using Prozac or some similar drug might be the easiest 'quick-fix' solution for a non-expert to try. 

The behaviorist may also have you try something like clicker training.  You've probably encountered this in your reading, but if not, do a quick search for it.  We use clicker training very successfully at my shelter in dog aggression cases. 

Something you can try on your own is a DAP (Dog Appeasing Pheromone) collar.  We also use these at our shelter with some success.  In my experience, it tends to work better on dogs which have aggression that is defensive/fear-based rather than offensive, but it might be worth a shot.  These work best in combination with some kind of a behavior modification routine.  You can get these collars from Amazon or any decent pet store. 

I'm not sure how old Lucy is, but dogs seem to have these dominance problems around age 1-4, give or take, and sometimes they do grow out of them. 

Patricia McConnell is an excellent dog behaviorist, and if you have access to any of her books, you might take a look.  Her website has a DVD of a day-long seminar on dog-dog aggression, including aggression within the same household.  It's a bit expensive and I don't have personal experience with this particular DVD, but it's probably worth watching! 

I have a couple questions, and while I can't play internet behaviorist I might be able to point you towards some more resources.

How old is Lucy now?  Do the fights seem to come out of nowhere, or have you found something which instigates them (it could be something that seems harmless- maybe Bernie is sleeping in Lucy's favorite spot of sunshine, or maybe Bernie got a bit more attention from people, etc.)?  How frequently do they fight?  When they are not fighting, do they get along, avoid each other, act snarly/rude to each other, or something else?

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!

[mountainguy]

Suec25, welcome to the fora and congrats on a great first post! I volunteer the dog section of an animal shelter and your advice sounds fabulous.

Aandsdean, I'm too far out of your geographic zone to take in Lucy (nor would I have much space for her in my current living situation), but I wish you the best with finding a favorable outcom.

[melba_frilkins]

What about Craig's list? Be sure to post to Craig's list for each of the major cities in your vicinity. Also see if there are is a foster-home type "shelter" that lists through Pet-Finder (www.petfinder.com) they might be willing to let you list your dog through their group.


Print out some nice pics of the dog. Mention her to everyone who you run into. If a fair amount of your students live off campus, it may be worth even announcing briefly in class. (I've found homes for three kittens and one old Subaru that way).

Good luck. My heart is with you.