next »

[prytania3]

But Sciencephd, back to your point. Scientists don't have any control over their discoveries. Even the person who came up with the formula for Viagra (who won the Nobel Prize) said, "Look what they did to my drug!" It was supposed to be for the heart, not the, well, you know.

Tell that to the Project Manhattan fellows.

Scientists do have control over their work. They can decide not to research particular subjects, or refuse to develop particular terrains. An interesting perspective on this is Philip Kitcher's Science, Truth and Democracy.

So scientists are behind Akron's DNA collecting? I bet James Watson, himself, ordered it.

[european]

But Sciencephd, back to your point. Scientists don't have any control over their discoveries. Even the person who came up with the formula for Viagra (who won the Nobel Prize) said, "Look what they did to my drug!" It was supposed to be for the heart, not the, well, you know.

Tell that to the Project Manhattan fellows.

Scientists do have control over their work. They can decide not to research particular subjects, or refuse to develop particular terrains. An interesting perspective on this is Philip Kitcher's Science, Truth and Democracy.

So scientists are behind Akron's DNA collecting? I bet James Watson, himself, ordered it.

I was commenting on your general claim, not on this particular instance.

[mouseman]

But Sciencephd, back to your point. Scientists don't have any control over their discoveries. Even the person who came up with the formula for Viagra (who won the Nobel Prize) said, "Look what they did to my drug!" It was supposed to be for the heart, not the, well, you know.

But that's true for everything.  Even the invention of fire ignition systems or of the wheel.  Compared, just say, to the internal combustion engine, genetics has done much pretty good, overall. 

[barred_owl]

Update (I know you were all on the edge of your seats about this): 

According to this article, the U of Akron board of trustees has accepted a Faculty Senate resolution to remove the DNA sample requirement from its hiring procedures policy. 

About face! Forward march...

[jackit]

But Sciencephd, back to your point. Scientists don't have any control over their discoveries. Even the person who came up with the formula for Viagra (who won the Nobel Prize) said, "Look what they did to my drug!" It was supposed to be for the heart, not the, well, you know.

Tell that to Murray Gell-Mann, John von Neumann, Enrico Fermi, Richard Feynman, Niels Bohr and Robert Oppenheimer.

Scientists do have control over their work. They can decide not to research particular subjects, or refuse to develop particular terrains. An interesting perspective on this is Philip Kitcher's Science, Truth and Democracy.

This is amusing on so many levels.  Johnny Von Neumann, Fermi, Feynman, Bohr, and Oppenheimer were all part of the biggest scientific redirect of all time: namely, the atomic bomb.  They all signed up to keep Germany from getting it first.  After the war, Von Neumman wanted to atomic bomb the Russians;  Fermi tried to find a way out of bombing Japan; Feynman thought they all should have quit the bomb project during the war, once Germany surrendered; Bohr argued relentlessly against the military use of atomic weapons and for sharing atomic technology; and Oppenheimer famously said "I have become Death, A Destroyer of Worlds" at the first atomic bomb test, and was later stripped of his security clearance for being insufficiently enthusiastic about the development of the H-bomb.

None of them ever had 'control' over atomic technology.

[european]

Their control lay in the fact that they should have refused to help the Manhattan Project.

[sciencephd]

Their control lay in the fact that they should have refused to help the Manhattan Project.

Wow.  This deserves its own thread.

[althea]

This is off topic but since the atom bomb was brought up I thought I'd mention this. Has anyone read "King Rat." It is James Clavell was a prisoner of war in a Japanese prisoner of war camp. He write the book to exorcise his demons. Near the end of the war it became apparent to all the prisoners that if the allies invaded, they (the prisoners) were to be slaughtered. This was, in fact, the plan. One of the main chararcters talked about sitting an waiting for the end. The bombs were dropped, and Japan surrendered. The Japanese guards just took off and left the prisoners in the camp where the allies found them and rescued them. At the end of the book this character says, and I am paraphrasing, that he knows the atom bomb is a horrific weapon, but he will always bless the men who made the first two.

I have seen films of prisoners of war discussing their experiences 60 years later. These men were crying as they discussed the horrors they saw and endured in the prison camps. These men looked every bit as bad as the holocaust survivors when they were rescued.  I think they deserved to survive the war, and if the bomb hadn't been dropped, they wouldn't have survived. The atom bomb is a horrific weapon and we all hope it is never used again, but this is not a black and white issue.     

I expect to get flamed for this, but there you go.

Althea

[pollinate]

The atom bomb is a horrific weapon and we all hope it is never used again, but this is not a black and white issue.     

I expect to get flamed for this, but there you go.

Althea

You'll get no flaming from me.  One of my grandfathers spent most of the war as a 'guest' of the Japanese government.  His survival is the only reason my parents ever met.

[european]

I have seen films of prisoners of war discussing their experiences 60 years later. These men were crying as they discussed the horrors they saw and endured in the prison camps. These men looked every bit as bad as the holocaust survivors when they were rescued.  I think they deserved to survive the war, and if the bomb hadn't been dropped, they wouldn't have survived. The atom bomb is a horrific weapon and we all hope it is never used again, but this is not a black and white issue.

No, it's not a black and white issue - given the existence of the atomic bomb, the validity of its deployment in Japan is morally ambiguous. (Although we can all agree that the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki deserved to survive the war as well, I may hope.) However, the overall effect of the atomic bomb (the risk of world destruction, the contemporary risk of an atomic bomb falling into terrorist hands, etc.) is quite unambiguously undesirable.

[jackit]

Their control lay in the fact that they should have refused to help the Manhattan Project.

That's not 'control.'  The participation of any single individual would not have stopped the project, or the overall development of atomic weapons.  (Although if, say, Fermi or Oppenheimer were not involved it may have slowed down to the point that no bomb was produced by the end of the war -- I'll give you that.)

\{derailment}