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[berkeleygirl]

I think you are right. Worst case scenario is I do not get anything and am unemployed next year, in which case I can defer my monstrous student loans. I think I've made up my mind.  Thank you all so much and best of luck everyone!

[tt_hopeful]

Good for you Berkleygirl.

It seems like you made the best decision given the facts.

Besides (like I tell myself everyday) the season's not over yet...

You have 15+ other apps out there... so there's always hope.  :)

[watermarkup]

I think you're making a horrible mistake.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you'd be content turning down this offer if it's the only TT job offer you'll ever have.

If you plan for better things in your career than Ugly 4-3 U, stop worrying about your obligations to them right now. You'll be a stronger candidate in the fall, or in another year or two, as someone who's actually held a tenure-track position and dealt with everything that goes along with it. I think just about any department in the country, no matter how elite, will be impressed by real-world experience. Ugly 4-3 U is a great line to have on your CV. You might even find that you like teaching there and you adore the earnest and well-meaning students at Ugly 4-3 U.

Or, you can have plastered all over your CV: Berkeley Girl, Ph.D., unable or unwilling to leave the nest. You're not the first Berkeley student to decide that you'd be better off without a TT offer from that school. I know one in my field who turned down a similar offer to pursue his research. He's still looking for a second TT offer.

Look, I feel your pain. I was depressed about my first post-Ph.D. job for months, until I discovered that I was at an interesting school in a funky town with great colleagues, and that I really was pretty good at teaching and that I really could keep up my research agenda under a 4-4 load. I understand that there are SO complications, and if it just doesn't work from SO's perspective, and you choose SO over Ugly 4-3 U, I can support that. But lots of people take jobs out of grad school that they aren't excited about. It's part of having an academic career. Don't talk yourself out of what might be the only break you're going to get this year, or next, or the one after that.

(But here's something else I'd do, if I were you: I'd put off signing the contract as long as possible, but if a great R1 comes back to you with a job offer after signing, I'd tell Ugly 4-3 U there's been a change in plans, so sorry. People will tell you it's dishonest and unethical, people will tell you that it will haunt you for the rest of your sorry short career, but you know what I think? If Shiny R1 is sufficiently better than Ugly 4-3 U, no one will give it a second thought. You jilted Left Armpit State to take a 2-2 job at Ivy U? Well, who wouldn't? It might be the only R1 TT offer you'll ever get.)

[berkeleygirl]

Thank you Watermarkup for your honest response. Honestly, if this is the only TT job I ever get, I still wouldn't be willing to relocate my family to Smellyville, USA  for this lone opportunity and the SO issue is very critical. I am excited about leaving "my nest" and my c.v. shows the different trees my nests have been in. I loved the students at Ugly, or rather smelly 4-3 U, but the teaching load would consist of classes that I have little training in. . .and I mean very little! I was shocked they invited me to campus, because during the phone interview they revealed what courses I would be teaching, and I was honest in telling them that I would be very uncomfortable with the subjects.

The issue isn't even as much about the 3-4 as what I would be having to teach, and the insane amount of preparation I would need. Meanwhile my SO would be unemployed or having to commute hours to get to work. 
 
I have been really sick over this whole thing. I have another interview coming up at a place I would love to be, a small LAC in a great locale.  Honestly, the rest of my 15+ apps are in better places for my family, and I am at a serious crossroads. I will take your advice and wait until the 11th hour to make a final call. Thanks so much for responding!

[watermarkup]

If it just doesn't work for your family, and your SO would be unemployed and miserable, then it makes sense to turn down the offer if there really is no chance you'd ever take the job. (But talk it over with SO for a few days, OK?)

But please get used to the idea that a TT job will involve a lot of teaching unfamiliar topics that will require insane amounts of preparation. The first year in any new job just plain sux, as you write new lesson plans with new textbooks and learn your way around the new institution. The second year gets a lot better, once you can start re-using lesson plans.

[berkeleygirl]

Thanks watermarkup.

I know the first year is really hard and am more than willing to bust my a** to get through it, be it a 2-2 or a 4-4. However, I need to clarify something; the job is in a different field than any of my degrees.   I applied because it was an open call that overlapped with my subfield. The course load and topics were not revealed until the phone interview, at which point I began to think I was completely out of the running, since I have no training or knowledge of what they need from this hire. Getting the campus invite was a shock, and the offer was even more surprising.  This 3-4 consists of courses I haven’t even taken, and in a field I am only slightly comfortable with.   I truly believe that the other two candidates would be much happier and honestly better at teaching this material than me.  This is all aside from the locale, SO problem and the rancid political environment.

I can see how my OP might have come across as me thinking I was “too good for ugly 3-4.” But I wouldn’t have applied there if I thought that.  I was very excited about teaching at this school, and until the campus visit, thought it would be a good fit. I will continue to talk with my SO and listen to advice, but feel that my mind is made up, and I think I need to fold.

[tandem]

berkleygirl, I think it makes sense for you to turn this down, fwiw.  It sounds like you're doing quite well on the market -- you must have found the interdisciplinary sweet spot.   

I think I know what you mean about feeling overwhelmed by what you'd be required to teach in this job.  I got a phone interview when I was ABD for a position that just barely overlapped my subfield but was completely outside my main field.  The interview was fabulous until they asked what courses I could teach in their core curriculum.  I hesitated, but ended up saying that, as they could see, I have no background in their main field and thus would probably require some ramp-up time to be ready to teach their theory and methods courses, etc.  It was the right answer, as the thought of teaching the core courses in that field -- which I was not only unfamiliar with but actually trained somewhat in opposition to -- made me nauseous on multiple levels.  They ended up not hiring, and readvertising the position the next year with the added "Must be prepared to teach in Main Field X, as well as in Subfield Y."

The first year teaching is overwhelming, of course, and teaching requires flexibility.  But schools have got to figure out how to hire across disciplines without asking that the specialized knowledge they want be an add-on to a similar foundation.  Or else they need to hire only within that foundation. 

Point being - it sounds from all indications in the last few posts of yours I read that you are likely to land something that's a better fit for you, probably this year but otherwise next year.  There are no guarantees in life, and fewer in this game, but I just wanted to put in my "yeah, turn it down" two cents to counter the "this is the biggest mistake of your life" posts...

[glowdart]

I think (reaching back to high school science discussions of the Coriolus effect), that the prevailing winds come from the southwest in much of the conterminous US, so if you're in that zone, the "northwest" idea might make sense (as opposed to northeast, certainly) although "southwest" might put you fully in the clear of the prevailing southwesterlies, being both below and before the wind hits the bran, so to speak.

But one of the meteo types here might want to clarify further..

And this is why I love these fora! 

[firstgeneration]

Wow, I missed a party and a serious discussion this weekend on this thread!  Berkeleygirl, congratulations on receiving a TT job offer.  Judging from your posts, it's clear where your heart is, and what you'd like to do.  Only you know the specific details of your situation, what the campus was like from your perspective, and whether this would be a viable move for your family.

[grasshopper]

I know the first year is really hard and am more than willing to bust my a** to get through it, be it a 2-2 or a 4-4. However, I need to clarify something; the job is in a different field than any of my degrees.   I applied because it was an open call that overlapped with my subfield. The course load and topics were not revealed until the phone interview, at which point I began to think I was completely out of the running, since I have no training or knowledge of what they need from this hire. Getting the campus invite was a shock, and the offer was even more surprising.  This 3-4 consists of courses I haven’t even taken, and in a field I am only slightly comfortable with.   

Yeah, there's a world of difference between being prepared to teach outside of your research topic, and teaching outside your discipline.

I've done the latter, and it was very, very difficult.

[eddyman]

Berkeleygirl,

I'm curious why you applied to this job in the first place.  I realize you didn't know about the types of courses you would be teaching but surely you must have known that this was not a place that your SO could find work and had a bad political environment...

[prof_smartypants]

Berkeleygirl,

I'm curious why you applied to this job in the first place.  I realize you didn't know about the types of courses you would be teaching but surely you must have known that this was not a place that your SO could find work and had a bad political environment...

Not to speak for BG, but in this economy, you apply for everything. The last thing you want to do is cross a school off a list because your perception about it is off. Lots of people think, "I'd never live in city X" just to find out when they visit that it's actually a nice place, etc. She didn't realize the extent of the issues in the place until she visited in person. This is why the campus visit is so essential - not only for the SC, but for the candidates.

[tt_hopeful]

Berkeleygirl,

I'm curious why you applied to this job in the first place.  I realize you didn't know about the types of courses you would be teaching but surely you must have known that this was not a place that your SO could find work and had a bad political environment...

Not to speak for BG, but in this economy, you apply for everything. The last thing you want to do is cross a school off a list because your perception about it is off. Lots of people think, "I'd never live in city X" just to find out when they visit that it's actually a nice place, etc. She didn't realize the extent of the issues in the place until she visited in person. This is why the campus visit is so essential - not only for the SC, but for the candidates.

+1

And as you noted, it can go the other way...

I interviewed at a school that I thought would be a "perfect" fit.  Location, discipline, reputation, etc.  Upon reflection, the inter-departmental conflicts during the middle of the interview were too hard to overlook. 

Still glad I applied.  Glad I interviewed.  Grateful for the offer, but experienced instant relief when I declined it.

[tvsociety]

Hello everyone. I am not new to the fora but I am new to contributing.

I'm ABD, on the market, and currently in that bittersweet situation where you have an TT offer but you also have a few more campus visits scheduled (each of which included lower teaching loads and higher pay... but each of which also had the potential for phd in hand competition who are often more attractive than hiring an abd). I was looking forward to more on campus interview experiences but the timeline for the ongoing searches exceeds my timeframe for a decision on the offer. So I guess I will have to take myself out of the running. My question is: How does one begin to feel settled and let go of the uncertainty that the opportunities/disappointments of the job market bring? I should probably just sign, move on from the market, and focus on completing the diss. Right? But job market uncertainty, hope, and even the melancholia can be so addictive.

[berkeleygirl]

Berkeleygirl,

I'm curious why you applied to this job in the first place.  I realize you didn't know about the types of courses you would be teaching but surely you must have known that this was not a place that your SO could find work and had a bad political environment...

I think prof_smartypants and tt_hopeful explained why pretty well. (Thank you both by the way)

I need a job, plain and simple. I am willing to teach almost anywhere, and the political environment was on the department level, one that I couldn't hide from, or find out about beforehand. It was also during my visit when I realized the actual distance to a major city, and the flow of traffic that would make a 30 minute drive take over an hour each way. 

I really wanted to like this school, and was really excited to visit, until I got there.