bobaloo
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« on: November 01, 2009, 06:46:43 AM » |
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I'm another long-time Forumite with a very delicate situation. I'm hoping someone here might be able to shed some light for me.
In looking through the CV's of members of my staff, I see a person declaring a "diploma" as a good first degree. The diploma was issued by a now defunct, and many times subsumed, college. This occurred decades ago. Am I correct in thinking that a diploma is not a degree, and that it suggests not achieving a Bachelor's degree? Isn't a Bachelor's degree considered a good first degree?
As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal, and I'd like to make sure of my facts before taking this further. Can anyone help, please?
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pinkmouse
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2009, 06:58:25 AM » |
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Check whether your university's HR dept has some actual rules in writing about qualifications.
I've seen some that state things like "terminal degree or equivalent experience", which allows for the hiring of - for instance - artist practitioners in creative fields who don't have a PhD or MFA but may be highly regarded for their creative work.
Has this person any other qualifications? If s/he has a Masters or PhD, the status of this earlier qualification is surely moot.
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sandgrounder
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 08:55:13 AM » |
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This might be slightly complicated depending on what it's in. Assuming this is a UK qualification, then I know that teacher training colleges did two year courses called diplomas that qualified you to teach until the 1970s or so. It wasn't failing a degree - that was the terminal qualification. I think a lot of the former polys but also civic universities also offered various diplomas in things like engineering, science computing etc too that again were complete courses and very closely tied to local employment needs. Now whether NARIC would say they're equal to a BA/BSc I doubt, but what might be relevant to your case, is that I think in practice a lot of leeway was given to holders of these qualifications in terms of access to higher degrees and in qualification for jobs.
It might of course also signify that the holder only completed one year of university (either failed subsequent years or dropped out). But I think I'd be very careful about checking this, before I assumed bad faith.
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mingus
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« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2009, 11:44:51 AM » |
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Can the clown.
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 17,568
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2009, 01:53:53 PM » |
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I know nothing about these matters, but could you call the person in and innocently ask for an explanation?
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wegie
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« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2009, 05:15:14 AM » |
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If you're in a new university, it's quite likely that there will still be people around who only have a Dip Ed (which, as Sandgrounder says, were around until the mid 70s) as their first qualification. Equally, if you're in a science/engineering/tech department, particularly at a new university, there will still be people who started off with a HND, worked for years, and then did a direct entry MSc without ever upgrading their diploma to a degree. Particularly in technology/engineering, the idea that everybody should do a BSc/BEng as their first qualification is a very recent idea (and was, I think, the result of an argument that blew up in the 70s and 80s about funding students on one and two year courses).
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snape
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« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2009, 06:55:11 AM » |
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Similarly the Cert Ed. was a three year full time course in higher education for trainee teachers, usually obtained from a College of Education. Although not seen as a degree at the time, it would probably be reasonable to assume that it is a suitable equivalent today. It did not prevent a relative of mine from being accepted for a master's programme a few years back.
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scotia
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« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2009, 02:10:07 PM » |
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I have a relative who has a 'Diploma' that is now widely accepted to be equivalent to a degree: at the time she was a student the diploma was the highest award. The course she took is now a degree course (though with slightly less content than when she was a student) but people continued to question her qualifications until she got tired of explaining and took a Masters program to prove the point. She finished as the top student in her class.
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drspouse
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 08:44:46 AM » |
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This can also be true in practicioner subjects, mainly health-based - nursing, OT, Physio etc. where the degree is a recent innovation.
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pinkmouse
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 08:58:23 AM » |
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As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal
Not really. Nobody will give a sh*t about this person's Diploma from 30 years ago. And you'll look like a desperate busybody. |
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drspouse
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 09:01:14 AM » |
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practicioner And of course in practitioner ones, too. |
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bobaloo
New member
Posts: 2
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« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2009, 09:12:09 AM » |
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As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal
Not really. Nobody will give a sh*t about this person's Diploma from 30 years ago. And you'll look like a desperate busybody. Actually, Pinkmouse, in the past two years this person has developed a long string of slippery, manipulative egregious history. HR is looking for something to definitively hang on this person, and misrepresented qualifications just might do the trick. |
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pinkmouse
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2009, 11:34:07 AM » |
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As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal
Not really. Nobody will give a sh*t about this person's Diploma from 30 years ago. And you'll look like a desperate busybody. Actually, Pinkmouse, in the past two years this person has developed a long string of slippery, manipulative egregious history. HR is looking for something to definitively hang on this person, and misrepresented qualifications just might do the trick. Ah, well that's different then. If it's a "nail in the coffin" rather than a first offense, I see where you're coming from. I'd still try to find some way to lob that grenade so it doesn't look like it came from you. (I once dropped the dime on someone who was claiming a PhD they did not hold - anonymous call to their school's administration. It worked too: I saw the school's website quickly removed the "Dr" title, and this person's contract was not renewed.) |
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snape
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« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2009, 08:05:27 AM » |
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As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal
Not really. Nobody will give a sh*t about this person's Diploma from 30 years ago. And you'll look like a desperate busybody. Actually, Pinkmouse, in the past two years this person has developed a long string of slippery, manipulative egregious history. HR is looking for something to definitively hang on this person, and misrepresented qualifications just might do the trick. We look forward to hearing about the tribunal! |
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mingus
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2009, 12:28:26 PM » |
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In stating (original posting) that "As you might imagine, this has the potential to be quite the little scandal, and I'd like to make sure of my facts before taking this further.", you were misrepresenting things somewhat. As it turns out, nobody there really cares about that, and you are here just to check if this particular path to screwing the person will work. And I take it from the phrase "my staff" that you are some sort of leader !?!?! Do let us know how things go at the tribunal.
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