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[madhatter]

No kidding. I was offered an assistant provost (aka, provost's errand boy) job at an exclusive, monied SLAC. The pay was about 1/3rd that.

[wonderingj]

Well I make WAY less than that provost as I am an associate in what is probably the lowest-paid field of law.  That would actually be what a partner would be making in a small to mid-sized law firm.  I would be fine with making $60k to start out in academic administration.  Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.  I guess I will put off enrolling in one of those MEd programs for now and do more networking...

[sibyl]

Welcome to the fora, wonderingj.  There has been a lot of good advice on the thread, so let me add just a few things that haven't been mentioned.

I have been rejected for administrative positions by every law school in my area (though I made it to finalist in several of the interviews) and I don't want to move due to my elderly parents.  I have had no success obtaining interviews for non-law school administrative jobs in universities. 

You need to know that higher education is a highly competitive industry and the jobs for which you are applying receive applications from all around the country.  It takes time and energy to get a job in higher ed.  Zharkov's Law states that you should expect that the number of applications you send should exceed the average number of applications received for the jobs for which you apply; therefore, if there are 100 applicants for the student-affairs jobs (a not unreasonable number even for a law school) then you should plan to apply for 100 jobs.  If you are unable or unwilling to move, your chances of obtaining a job grow much weaker.

1.  I think that I am interested in student affairs but I am not sure since I have never tried it.  I think I can arrange to do a couple of days of job shadowing in a local institution but can someone suggest any other ways I could test out my interest? I would like to volunteer with students but would have to do it on the weekend or at night.  I hesitate to leave my profession unless I can really test out my interest but I am stumped as how to test this out in a meaningful way while working full time.

Are you an alum of any of these universities?  If so, call up the alumni association and tell them you'd like to volunteer in some way; they will help connect you with the right people.  If not, call up your alma mater and offer your services for free.  Then take a few days off and go to that location to do your volunteering and shadowing.  You should also do informational interviewing while you are there: explain that you are not interested in a job at Alma Mater because of the distance, but you'd appreciate advice on breaking in.

2. Should I get a masters in higher education administration to make this career transition? 

An HEA degree is more useful for dealing with undergraduate populations than law school students, most of whom are nonresidential and adult (legally anyway).  You might consider it if you want to work with undergraduates.  But I believe firmly that no one should pursue a degree that isn't interesting in itself, including the JD.  A degree guarantees nothing.  Don't do it if you don't want to.

There are lots of jobs in higher ed.  Read books and talk to people to determine which jobs interest you the most.  Good luck.

Good luck.

[wonderingj]

Thanks for the advice!

[hestia]

I would strongly suggest you speak with a career counselor.  You appear to be suffering from Unhappy Lawyer Syndrome, which accounts for roughly 50% of all attorneys as far as I can tell.  When you combine that with the flood of un- or underemployed lawyers due to this current economic climate, that's a lot of lawyers.  Add that to the fact that jobs in academia are being shed rapidly, the math isn't good.  And if you have no clue why you want to do what you say you want to do, having never done any student service work (for which the burn out rate is extraordinarily high, by the way), the odds go way down.  Maybe you just need a more fulfilling job as a lawyer, whether in-house counsel or at a non-profit.  In any event, a good career counselor might be of help.

[der_gadfly]

OP:

stick with your law practice. Unless you wish to go into administrative work in a compliance function (and MOST compliance jobs are for athletic compliance, and if you have no experience as a coach too, forget it). Or there is always the for-profit arena, which typically requires a certain lack of human ethics in compliance, but a high degree of legal paranoia......

IF you decide to teach:
You can ONLY teach a few courses in limited areas because your graduate degree is in LAW, not an academic discipline. not really a good choice.

You MIGHT consider the For-Profit sector in regulatory affairs at the corporate level..... Try ITT, EDMC, or even Florida Career College.

[mayreh]

OP:

About half of my colleagues in the advising office where I work have a JD, and prior to their current job have had little to no experience in higher ed.  We train them in advising and have found that their JD and legal experience is invaluable in talking to liberal arts students about their education and potential careers, since so many students see law school as a safe backup to their degree in French Lit.  What we look for when hiring is not necessarily experience, but a desire to learn and a love of students (this is key - I can teach you how to advise. I can't teach you how to love students).  Even if they start out at the bottom they can quickly move up, since the JD is a terminal degree and makes them eligible for the various director and assistant dean jobs around the university. Your local universities may be different though, so I would find out the educational background of those in positions that interest you.  Regardless, I would caution against getting an MA in higher ed - I'm not sure it's worth it.

If you can get some experience in working with students at your local university, even on a volunteer basis, that would help your odds considerably.  I would start with the career counseling or pre-law office to see if there are any mentoring programs or workshops where you could volunteer your time.  This would allow you to make yourself known to people within university administration and would give you the opportunity to see if you like working with students.

[wonderingj]

thanks!

[ghillbilly]

Or there is always the for-profit arena, which typically requires a certain lack of human ethics in compliance, but a high degree of legal paranoia......

We can always depend on der_gadfly to add a postive and uplifting comment to the debate.

[academicjd]

I'm late to the discussion, but I have a JD and currently work in academic administration so I thought I'd offer my two cents.

I was able to get an entry-level position in law school student services at a small, private law school, and the pay is actually decent - mid-50s - as law schools tend to pay a little more than undergraduate institutions.  I do not have the MA, though I will likely get it at some point since it's free at my institution.  However, before I got this job, I was considering getting a PhD in Higher Ed since many of those are fully paid for so you might want to look into that.  You'd have to live off a very small stipend for a few years, but at least you could avoid incurring any new debt. 

I also have a friend from law school who went the law librarian route and started off in the mid-50s, but you will need an MLS for that. 

Hope this helps!

[meandean]

Like academicjd I am arriving a bit late to this discussion. The advice given by Sibyl is, as usual, right on target and worthwhile.

As a long time student affairs professional I'd like to add a few items for your consideration. First, if you are looking at a school with traditionally aged students, do you like working with young people? Do you have the energy, and commitment to put in the time to connect with and mentor your students. Many of the positions in student affairs (especially at smaller institutions) require both the wearing of many hats AND involvement in a variety of activities that occur outside of the normal work day. Some of the most important interactions you'll have are those that occur informally (see Vincent Tinto's Model of Institutional Departure for a discussion of this).

Second, I didn't get a sense of why you were interested in the field. If you were to apply for a position at my institution I'd want to get a sense of why:
 1) you were leaving your chosen profession
 2) what exactly you could bring to the job at hand (especially as you say you have no prior experience)
 3) your job skills would make you the best candidate for the job.

Third, if all you are selling is your JD, you are selling yourself short. I'd look carefully at your skill sets and, after doing that evaluate the needs of the positions for which you choose to apply. I have experience working both in higher ed (HE) and in the business world (I left HE and returned many years ago) and, when I decided to return, had to seriously evaluate and present:
 1) my reasons for leaving and wanting to return, and
 2) the value of my experience outside of HE as it applied to the job in question.

Over the years I've had a number of colleagues in the field who have earned a JD, one of whom was a Chief Student Affairs officer at a community college (though he did have experience before getting the JD). As in any search, if you limit yourself geographically, you will have a tougher time...especially in this job market.

Finally, I need to end with repeating one of my questions -- why, really, do you want to make this move? Your response has to be both compelling and believable if you're going to get serious consideration.