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[madhatter]

Yes, I have actually heard of them!

Do you think that the U of Phoenix accreditation will ever be in jeopardy?

Not unless the rules for accreditation change drastically. Why would you think it will be in jeopardy? That's a serious question. What do you think they are doing/will do that would violate accreditation standards? (Do you know what those standards are? )

[untenured]

Does accreditation actually make students change their decision about where to attend college?  If not, perhaps UP shouldn't much care about whether some fuddy-duddy organization gives them a stamp of approval.

Untenured

[aandsdean]

Does accreditation actually make students change their decision about where to attend college?  If not, perhaps UP shouldn't much care about whether some fuddy-duddy organization gives them a stamp of approval.

Untenured

You can't get federal financial aid to attend an unaccredited school.  Most accredited grad and professional programs won't recognize an unaccredited degree.  The first of these two factors would destroy Phoenix in about 15 minutes, which is why, as I mention above, they're so careful about attendance records, etc.

[untenured]

Ah, now this makes sense.  This gives UP a good reason to care.

Untenured

[madhatter]

Ah, now this makes sense.  This gives UP a good reason to care.

It gives the vast majority of schools a good reason to care. Your college is not jumping through accreditation hoops because they feel it is a moral imperative.

[neutralname]

Gosh, another chance to jump onto my hobbyhorse.

Doesn't the fact that UoP is accredited suggest that the accrediting agencies are looking at the wrong things.  Doesn't it show that getting people to cook up outcomes assessments is basically a waste of time, and that we need better ways to assess academic integrity and achievement?

[madhatter]

Gosh, another chance to jump onto my hobbyhorse.

Doesn't the fact that UoP is accredited suggest that the accrediting agencies are looking at the wrong things.  Doesn't it show that getting people to cook up outcomes assessments is basically a waste of time, and that we need better ways to assess academic integrity and achievement?

Why?

I'm not UoP's biggest fan, but I don't buy the kneejerk assertion that it's bad because some traditional professors don't like it.

[neutralname]

My comment assumed the claim of others that UoP is deeply academically flawed.  It's only relevant to those who take this dim view.

Personally I've never taken a UoP course, nor even seen a course outline or met someone who has admitted to taking a UoP course.  So I'm not in a position to judge.  But there seems to be widespread agreement about the worthlessness of a UoP degree.

[madhatter]

My comment assumed the claim of others that UoP is deeply academically flawed.  It's only relevant to those who take this dim view.

Personally I've never taken a UoP course, nor even seen a course outline or met someone who has admitted to taking a UoP course.  So I'm not in a position to judge.  But there seems to be widespread agreement about the worthlessness of a UoP degree.

I don't know that I would take this forum as a large enough cross-section of society to be able to claim "widespread agreement" about anything. I think it's troubling to hold such a strong opinion based on an admitted lack of knowledge.

[neutralname]

I aim to be a thorough-going positivist and empiricist, so I am duly chastized. 

[madhatter]

I aim to be a thorough-going positivist and empiricist, so I am duly chastized. 

Sorry, that really wasn't my intent!

I'd kinda love a serious, probing discussion of for-profit colleges, their impact on higher ed, how they compare to other institutions and so on. Unfortunately, they're usually held up as a caricature here, which is a shame.

[der_gadfly]

Gosh, another chance to jump onto my hobbyhorse.

Doesn't the fact that UoP is accredited suggest that the accrediting agencies are looking at the wrong things.  Doesn't it show that getting people to cook up outcomes assessments is basically a waste of time, and that we need better ways to assess academic integrity and achievement?

Let's see, most accrediting bodies want essentially the same things, and it is NOT about meeting the goals of traditional programs. The standards generally speak to institutional effectiveness (mission is reviewed, there are adequate financial resources to sustain it, that there is continual or periodic review of facilities etc), and learning (duly qualified and credentialed faculty in adequate numbers, appropriate learning resources such as libraries, and that degree programs are consistent with established and published (i.e. advertised) goals). The search for quality is more about the throughputs than the outputs: the theory is that if the inputs and throughput processes are sound, that the outputs should also be sound.

I see the point about 'cooked up' outcomes assessments, but since there are all those lawyer-types (i.e. elected/appointed officials) trying to make points for themselves with the public, they had to come up with something. But then again, the regional accreditors have been talking about outcomes assessment for well over 2 decades.....

[sciencephd]

I just saw during today's football game that University of Phoenix has its own stadium sponsorhip. 

U of Phoenix stadium, home of the Arizonal Cardinals.

Surely this proves that they are top-notch.

[ghillbilly]

I just registered with this Forum today and because I start my doctoral work in January, I read all the threads regarding B&M vs. Online colleges first.  Because this site is focused on higher education, I was expecting a lively debate and was excited to read a variety of viewpoints.  However, I was a little disappointed at how many of the posts didn't argue their points of views, but rather attacked other members.  Hopefully the posts I have viewed are the exception not the rule.

As a full-time HR professional, mother, and wife, I am not able to attend a B&M institution.  Not because of my busy life, but because Ohio State University does not offer a part-time PhD program.  Since I am the breadwinner in my house, quitting my job was not an option.  I was very disappointed, but I am determined to obtain my doctorate.

My only option is through an online university.  I have chosen Capella because they have the best program for me - HR Management, are regionally accredited, and the program is very rigorous.  In addition, all the feedback I have read from Capella graduates has been very positive and reassured me that I am making a good decision.

The research I did on UofP revealed so many concerns that I wouldn't consider them.  I don't feel that the flaws found at UofP reflect poorly on all online colleges.  I got my BS from the University of Missouri St. Louis and it was a dump.  However, the University of Missouri Rolla where my dad teaches is a great R1 school.  In no way does their affiliation change the high standing that UMR has in the engineering community.  The same can be said for UofP and Capella - one is a dump while the other is well respected.

Hopefully, I'll have more to contribute going forward.

[der_gadfly]

I just registered with this Forum today and because I start my doctoral work in January, I read all the threads regarding B&M vs. Online colleges first.  Because this site is focused on higher education, I was expecting a lively debate and was excited to read a variety of viewpoints.  However, I was a little disappointed at how many of the posts didn't argue their points of views, but rather attacked other members.  Hopefully the posts I have viewed are the exception not the rule.

(snip)

Well, welcome.......

If you actually expected academic types to be civil, then I suspect that you too will be sorely disappointed. Just so you know, never make a typo. Never misuse the apostrophe. Be sure to always be grammatically correct. You see, things like these tend to be far more important than anything else.

As for your choice of Capella, yes, reviews by grads are good. One should remember though that things there are not the same as they were just a few years back. Procedures have become more corporatized than they were in the past. No longer does one select the mentor, and the committees are assigned also. Comprehensives are now timed (there is a time limit) and questions are assigned (I suspect in order to have assessment data - common learning assessments). IMHO, much less innovative than in the past. The faculty are still good, very dedicated, but they have no real say in the curriculua. Of all the online programs in your area though, still the best. of course, you probably will not get a good job as a professor at an R1...... Best of luck.