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[jonesey]

From Inside Higher Ed:

As Phoenix's parent company, the Apollo Group, reported its fourth quarter and annual earnings Tuesday, it announced that the university's enrollment of degree-seeking students grew to 443,000 as of August 2009, up 22 percent from 362,000 in August 2008. The biggest growth in Phoenix's enrollments, by far, came among students seeking associate degrees, which rose by 37 percent, to 201,200 from 146,500 in 2008.

...Phoenix's size and bulk, its increase produces startling numbers that -- depending on how things formally shake out in enrollments this fall -- would make the for-profit university bigger than the entire California State University System, which had 437,000 students in fall 2008 and was expected to limit enrollments this fall.

Some of the most telling parts of this article are the comments found at the bottom.  Most of us are aware of this, but the shift in higher education seems to be "Why waste my time with all of the nonsense found at "regular" colleges; just let me get in there, pay my tuition, and get my degree so I can get a better job/promotion/raise/etc." 

Higher education is quickly becoming just another commodity, and I'm not happy about that.

[onion]

I find the U of Phoenix horrifying, and I may be one of the few people around here who actually worked for them (for years).  Shh...don't tell my "real" employer.

Phoenix does some seriously hard-core recruiting--personal emails and phone calls after students click around on their website and maybe ask for more info.  Many of the students I had confessed that they decided to go to Phoenix after the heavy recruiting, which included selling them student loans.  They said "I lost my job, my husband/wife doesn't make much money, so the student loans help and the classes aren't that hard."  Many of them failed.  Many of them drop out, and have the highest default rate on student loans. It's heartbreaking.  And I can't help but wonder if Phoenix targets a certain demographic---I had a lot of students in Texas and Katrina devastated areas, as well as Michigan. 

Cheating is rampant, and I could never find anyone at Phoenix to do something about the fact that ALL of the answers/assignments had been posted online by former Phoenix students. 

Instructors are woefully underpaid, and I believe that many of them are unprepared.  Many UPhoenix/Apollo Group staffers work on their Masters degrees through Phoenix, then become Phoenix professors. 

I never felt so dirty as when I was cashing my Apollo Group paycheck.  But I've not got the bod to work as a "dancer", and street walking seemed too dangerous, so Phoenix it was.

[polly_mer]

Some of the most telling parts of this article are the comments found at the bottom.  Most of us are aware of this, but the shift in higher education seems to be "Why waste my time with all of the nonsense found at "regular" colleges; just let me get in there, pay my tuition, and get my degree so I can get a better job/promotion/raise/etc." 

Higher education is quickly becoming just another commodity, and I'm not happy about that.

I think the problem is that many people really do need a job training certificate program instead of a college education.  Unfortunately for them, they are not good about knowing the valuable parts of a certificate program (Hey Ma, I can now weld safely!) and the valuable parts of a general education (Hey Ma, I can think and write a report that other people can read and act upon!). 

In that respect, I'm horrified by what passes for a high school education around here.  I don't think people should have to go to college to be able to do arithmetic, read a newspaper, or write a coherent two page report.

[kedves]

I know, aren't they amazing?  They identified a demand, create supply to meet it, and market the heck out of it.  Even the recent SNL mock-ad is a tribute to Phoenix's success.  Its growth is incredible and it continues to buy companies to incorporate into its system.  This is a reference to its size in revenue terms from the recent CHE article about the $80.5 mil. expected settlement with the federal government for obtaining student loans under false pretenses:

The company did report annual revenue of $4-billion for the year ending August 31 and a 22-percent increase in enrollment at the University of Phoenix, bringing its total enrollment of degree-seeking students to 443,000.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future--how these degrees are treated in the job marketplace over time and the return on investment that online non-profit, online for-profit, and traditional non-profit degree holders think they received.

[onion]

I know, aren't they amazing?  They identified a demand, create supply to meet it, and market the heck out of it.  Even the recent SNL mock-ad is a tribute to Phoenix's success.  Its growth is incredible and it continues to buy companies to incorporate into its system.  This is a reference to its size in revenue terms from the recent CHE article about the $80.5 expected settlement with the federal government for obtaining student loans under false pretenses:

The company did report annual revenue of $4-billion for the year ending August 31 and a 22-percent increase in enrollment at the University of Phoenix, bringing its total enrollment of degree-seeking students to 443,000.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the future--how these degrees are treated in the job marketplace over time and the return on investment that online non-profit, online for-profit, and traditional non-profit degree holders think they received.

I had a lot of students who were already employed somewhere, and their employer indicated that they needed a degree (any degree, in anything) to be promoted to shift supervisor or line supervisor or warehouse supervisor.  I'm entirely serious.  For these students, UPhoenix offered a product they needed and wanted, and fit their schedules.  (Why they weren't taking online classes through their local CCs was beyond me, as they just needed Associate degrees.)  However, the 19-year-olds who were there as their first brush with higher ed worried me.  Will employers who are meeting them for the first time through their resumes and applications take their degrees seriously? And at the rate Apollo is growing, the answer might be yes, as more and more of those folks might have degrees from Phoenix. 

I teach at a huge R1.  I sat in a department meeting this semester where someone actually said "we need to think about how to develop online content to compete with places like Phoenix?"  Wha?!?!?!  Our tuition is WAY cheaper, but one can get through Phoenix much faster, which I think appeals to potential students.

[jonesey]

The big deal with UoPh and other for-profit schools is the "customer first" mentality: Students get their hands held for their entire degree.  I teach at a FP school (albiet nothing like Phoenix) and at a CC.  I get many students who are at the FP (and paying $20,000/year in tuition) after leaving the CC after a semester or so because the CC "didn't care" about them.  I.E. didn't walk them through registration, show them where to park, let them miss classes due to "family issues" etc, etc. 

UoP (and my school) are open enrollment, and don't have remedial classes, so I get students in Comp I who tried a CC but were told they'd need a year of prep English/Math so they said "forget it."  Then they call UoP and, viola!  Welcome to college! 

BTW, it doesn't matter if 450,000 people are enrolled; I want to know their persistency rates.  FWIW, their graduation rate is less than 20% in some locations.  They operate on the Quantity = Quality model, and it's a crime. 

[hoodah_thunkett]

I got my master's degree through an online program offered by a well-respected, placed-based public university. The program is fantastic and the professors are tops in their field. However, I was always a bit afraid to tell people that I was taking my program online, because many people assumed that all online programs were like University of Phoenix--in their minds, not as rigorous and/or valuable as "real" college.

I fear that the growth of University of Phoenix may have had a negative impact on the American public's view of online education, and I find that unfortunate.

[onion]

I got my master's degree through an online program offered by a well-respected, placed-based public university. The program is fantastic and the professors are tops in their field. However, I was always a bit afraid to tell people that I was taking my program online, because many people assumed that all online programs were like University of Phoenix--in their minds, not as rigorous and/or valuable as "real" college.

I fear that the growth of University of Phoenix may have had a negative impact on the American public's view of online education, and I find that unfortunate.

I agree with this.  The library program at U of Illinois comes to mind (LEEP permits you to do the degree largely online), and it's nothing to sneeze at.

[renji]

I am not worried about U of P at all.

For years, millions of people were prevented from going to school because of time or location constraints. Now, these people can pick up a degree. We should be celebrating the democratization of education.

What bothers me is studies which average in U of P's non tenured faculty with the rest of academe to "show" that tenure is declining on real college campuses.

Any study on tenure in America which includes U of P and its cohorts is not worth the paper it is printed on.

That U of P data is being used to frame the national debate and influence policy is the only thing that bothers me about the "school."

[onion]

I am not worried about U of P at all.

For years, millions of people were prevented from going to school because of time or location constraints. Now, these people can pick up a degree. We should be celebrating the democratization of education.
<snip>

I am all for the democratization of education, but I don't think that the education being peddled at Phoenix is a quality one AND it's very expensive.  Community colleges and other regional state universities are expanding their online offerings so that "non traditional" students can pursue an education at a much more democratic price than Phoenix.

[leontrout]

"Now, these people can pick up a degree. We should be celebrating the democratization of education."

Degree =/= education.

N.B. I was brought up working class and teach mostly working class people. Like Renji, I'm all for democratization.

[svenc]

I find the U of Phoenix horrifying, and I may be one of the few people around here who actually worked for them (for years).  Shh...don't tell my "real" employer.

Phoenix does some seriously hard-core recruiting--personal emails and phone calls after students click around on their website and maybe ask for more info.  Many of the students I had confessed that they decided to go to Phoenix after the heavy recruiting, which included selling them student loans.  They said "I lost my job, my husband/wife doesn't make much money, so the student loans help and the classes aren't that hard."  Many of them failed.  Many of them drop out, and have the highest default rate on student loans. It's heartbreaking.  And I can't help but wonder if Phoenix targets a certain demographic---I had a lot of students in Texas and Katrina devastated areas, as well as Michigan.  

Cheating is rampant, and I could never find anyone at Phoenix to do something about the fact that ALL of the answers/assignments had been posted online by former Phoenix students.  

Instructors are woefully underpaid, and I believe that many of them are unprepared.  Many UPhoenix/Apollo Group staffers work on their Masters degrees through Phoenix, then become Phoenix professors.  

I never felt so dirty as when I was cashing my Apollo Group paycheck.  But I've not got the bod to work as a "dancer", and street walking seemed too dangerous, so Phoenix it was.

HOF'd, both to honor the content, and so that a copy of it might survive the impending (baseless) libel suit.

[onion]

HOF'd, both to honor the content, and so that a copy of it might survive the impending (baseless) libel suit.

Oh no.  I hope that UPhoenix and ORT don't team up and come after me. 

[mountainguy]

Oh no.  I hope that UPhoenix and ORT don't team up and come after me.  

Fortunately, I don't think University of Phoenix has operations in the UK, which means they can't benefit from British libel laws. :)

Onion, I'm sorry you had to work at U. of Phoenix. It sounds like a terrible operation. As we've previously discussed on the fora, the results of a UOP degree aren't even terribly reliable. They've produced some terrible public school teachers back in MountainState, and BTR has stories about people who crashed and burned in the corporate world with UOP degrees. It might be a viable option for people who just need a credential for promotion or advancement without any accompanying skills, but I don't see any quality control in place.

[onion]

Oh no.  I hope that UPhoenix and ORT don't team up and come after me.  

Fortunately, I don't think University of Phoenix has operations in the UK, which means they can't benefit from British libel laws. :)

Onion, I'm sorry you had to work at U. of Phoenix. It sounds like a terrible operation. As we've previously discussed on the fora, the results of a UOP degree aren't even terribly reliable. They've produced some terrible public school teachers back in MountainState, and BTR has stories about people who crashed and burned in the corporate world with UOP degrees. It might be a viable option for people who just need a credential for promotion or advancement without any accompanying skills, but I don't see any quality control in place.

I don't know and don't understand what the admissions standards are at Phoenix (or if there even are any), but I had students who were functionally illiterate.  I could barely decipher their emails.  Because the act of writing an email was so difficult for them, many preferred the phone.  And I received  A LOT of phone calls: they would call at midnight sobbing because they didn't understand the textbook.  Some were combative, and would call and yell at me for marking up the grammar errors on their papers because that was "their opinion" and why was I doing that? (At Phoenix you grade papers on a rubric and there is a section for grammar and mechanics.)  No one else at U of P ever had, they claimed.  Some were older people who did not know how to use their computers or the internet well enough to be enrolled in an online degree program--some, in fact, had purchased a new computer in order to "attend" Phoenix, and this was their first experience with technology more complicated than the remote control to their TV.  And I had several Apollo group employees as students, and they were also not able to write coherent, fluent English. 

It's a trainwreck, and I often said to my friends that I didn't feel like I could actually make a difference in these students' educations because their skills were just so remedial.  And since they're sitting in their living rooms, there isn't an opportunity to grab them after class and say hey, come to my office and we can talk about getting you a writing tutor, or pulling up their transcript and suggesting they take English 1XX to help them develop basic skills, etc. (I've taught at 2 "brick and mortar" universities that were close to open admissions, or that had a lot of students who needed basic remediation in terms of reading and writing, and I felt that I could intervene in some, not all, of those cases.)  The Phoenix students often complained to me that their "counselor" (they all get assigned to one) didn't answer their emails, or had quit, or had been fired and they didn't have a new one, or they didn't understand the chain of command and couldn't find someone to help them--even to help them withdraw from a class within the drop deadline, so they'd fail and lose that money. 

I felt like Phoenix was essentially mugging these students, and those "I am a Phoenix" tv commercials absolutely enrage me.  It's such utter bulls***, and I can't believe they've got PhD programs now, too.  Ugh.  This really hits a sore spot for me.  And I could still use the extra money, but my conscience won't let me do it anymore; I actually care about education, but this is NOT education.  It's a fleecing, a scam, a flim-flam operation.  I just can't be part of that.  I'd rather stuff envelopes from home in my copious free time.