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[ghillbilly]

Thanks for the warm welcome der_gadfly.  I will watch the typos :)

I am not interested in the tenure track.  My father is a professor emeritus at an RI school and has been there for 42 years.  The pace is a little too slow for me.  My expertise is in corporate life so there I will stay.  I am getting my PhD because, in my field, it is rare and very marketable. It will allow me to spend the last 20 years of my working life working for anyone I want and charging them a lot of money for the pleasure of my company :)  However, I would like to share my knowledge with young people so I may teach as an adjunct online or at a small local college when age forces me off the fast track. 

[jonesey]

Ghillbillly,

A couple of questions:

1.  If you're in HR, what do you need a doctorate for?

2.  Is it a DBA or somesuch?  What is your doctorate going to be in?

3.  Why Capella?  It's very expensive, and many B&M school have online doctorates that are much more respected.

That said, if your company doesn't care where your degree is from, go for it.  I haven't seen a lot (any) HR folks w/doctorates, however.  MBA?  Sure.  MA in Org Behavior?  Absolutely.  Doctorate?  Not so much.

[ghillbilly]

1.  If you're in HR, what do you need a doctorate for?

-I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll try and answer it.  In the field of Human Resources we are constantly trying to elevate the perception of the profession.  One component of this is to have individuals within the field that have advanced degrees.

2.  Is it a DBA or somesuch?  What is your doctorate going to be in?

-I already have a Masters in HR Development.  This is a PhD in Human Resource Management.

3.  Why Capella?  It's very expensive, and many B&M school have online doctorates that are much more respected.

-Since I had to go with an on-line shool, I wanted to attend one that had a good reputation for on-line learning.  Also, my dissertation will be focused on student interactions and the perception of learning in a virtual environment.

I haven't seen a lot (any) HR folks w/doctorates
-Exactly the reason I should get one :) 

[venerable_bede]

1.  If you're in HR, what do you need a doctorate for?

-I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll try and answer it.  In the field of Human Resources we are constantly trying to elevate the perception of the profession.  One component of this is to have individuals within the field that have advanced degrees.

That's one good component. Another good one would be to hire people who don't provoke responses like these. All the advanced degrees in the world won't change perception if this kind of behavior is so characteristic of the field.

[ghillbilly]

Another good one would be to hire people who don't provoke responses like these. All the advanced degrees in the world won't change perception if this kind of behavior is so characteristic of the field.

I'm not sure why you would say that about me or my field.  You don't know much about either of us. If it's a vain attempt to make me feel bad or to make yourself feel good, It didn't work on my end.  I only care about the opinions of people I care about.

[temporaryname]

My comment assumed the claim of others that UoP is deeply academically flawed.

<snip>

I have to wonder if it's any worse than any of the various non-selective tuition-dependent nonprofits out there. Is it simply its size that makes it such a widely-criticized target?

[der_gadfly]

Another good one would be to hire people who don't provoke responses like these. All the advanced degrees in the world won't change perception if this kind of behavior is so characteristic of the field.

I'm not sure why you would say that about me or my field.  You don't know much about either of us. If it's a vain attempt to make me feel bad or to make yourself feel good, It didn't work on my end.  I only care about the opinions of people I care about.

I, like many others, have had run-ins with HR folk which have been - well, less than satisfactory. At one recent place, the only things our HR Director did well were arriving at 9:05AM, having lunch, leaving at 4:55PM and telling us to look it up on the website (never was clear WHICH website that meant though....). Oh, yes, hu also was very good at losing paperwork, forms and unimportant items such as official transcripts.... almost forgot that one.

 

[ghillbilly]

I, like many others, have had run-ins with HR folk which have been - well, less than satisfactory. At one recent place, the only things our HR Director did well were arriving at 9:05AM, having lunch, leaving at 4:55PM and telling us to look it up on the website (never was clear WHICH website that meant though....). Oh, yes, hu also was very good at losing paperwork, forms and unimportant items such as official transcripts.... almost forgot that one.

I am curious if those are academic HR folk or corporate ones? Either way, there are poor representatives of every field...including academia :) 

[advil]

I just registered with this Forum today and because I start my doctoral work in January, I read all the threads regarding B&M vs. Online colleges first.  Because this site is focused on higher education, I was expecting a lively debate and was excited to read a variety of viewpoints.  However, I was a little disappointed at how many of the posts didn't argue their points of views, but rather attacked other members.  Hopefully the posts I have viewed are the exception not the rule.

One thing to keep in mind is that the thread here isn't really about online vs. b&m.  It is about for-profit vs. non-profit; it just happens that many for-profit schools focus on online education.  I think most academics are extremely uncomfortable with for-profit schools for many reasons, and the online issue (if one of them) is pretty small in the scale of things.  I think you should be able to find reasoned debate about online vs. face to face, whereas the for-profit issue raises some peoples hackles quite a bit more.  I do personally (as someone who advises phd students, and was one myself not too long ago) have my doubts about what it would mean to do an online phd in particular, but in general I don't have a problem with online education.  

My father is a professor emeritus at an RI school and has been there for 42 years.  The pace is a little too slow for me.

With all due respect, a tenure-track job is many things, but slow-paced is not one of them.  Once one is tenured (and definitely emeritus), the pace can be set however you want.

[ghillbilly]

With all due respect, a tenure-track job is many things, but slow-paced is not one of them.  Once one is tenured (and definitely emeritus), the pace can be set however you want.

He was comparing the pace of his job (and yours) to one like mine.  The pace of academia is, well, quite a bit different than a business environment.

whereas the for-profit issue raises some peoples hackles quite a bit more.

LOL...based on my assessment of the opinions on this site, most everything about online learning raises hackles. :)

[obprof]

HR (and OB, for that matter, along with I-O Psyc) is a traditional academic discipline. They do empirical and theoretical peer-reviewed research, which is intended to guide practice in the field.

Ghillbillly,

A couple of questions:

1.  If you're in HR, what do you need a doctorate for?

2.  Is it a DBA or somesuch?  What is your doctorate going to be in?

3.  Why Capella?  It's very expensive, and many B&M school have online doctorates that are much more respected.

That said, if your company doesn't care where your degree is from, go for it.  I haven't seen a lot (any) HR folks w/doctorates, however.  MBA?  Sure.  MA in Org Behavior?  Absolutely.  Doctorate?  Not so much.

[jonesey]

Here's a good article on FP education from The New York Times.

Some salient points:

“The for-profits are concentrating 100 percent of their effort on teaching students what they want to be taught, when they want to be taught,” says Richard Vedder, director of the Center for College Affordability and Productivity. Programs are designed around fields that need workers, like information technology, nursing and criminal justice. They operate year-round, at night and on weekends. They promise more career guidance than do cash-strapped community colleges.

[venerable_bede]

Another good one would be to hire people who don't provoke responses like these. All the advanced degrees in the world won't change perception if this kind of behavior is so characteristic of the field.

I'm not sure why you would say that about me or my field.  You don't know much about either of us. If it's a vain attempt to make me feel bad or to make yourself feel good, It didn't work on my end.  I only care about the opinions of people I care about.

I'm not sure I said anything about you personally or your field. (I did impugn HR in the other thread, admittedly.) You mentioned perception, I'm talking perception. The discussion I linked to is one about the perceived shortcomings of HR folks (at least those at higher ed institutions). I don't think it's a radical or offensive thing to say that, if many people perceive HR folks as being dippy "drones" (as the OP in the other thread put it), then knowing that the drones have advanced degrees isn't going to do anything about that perception. I think that's true whether the HR folks in question are at higher ed institutions or in a corporate setting.

I think people with advanced degrees don't tend to be terribly impressed with someone just because that person also has an advanced degree. It might work in the corporate world, but I wouldn't know and I'm not making any claims about it. I just think that perception will most quickly and meaningfully be improved by raising the bar of HR performance, not by raising the bar of HR credentialing.

I really didn't mean to make you feel bad, and I can assure you that it doesn't make me feel good.

[ghillbilly]

The discussion I linked to is one about the perceived shortcomings of HR folks (at least those at higher ed institutions

I have heard that about HR departments within academia.  To be honest they are not respected within HR professional circles because the work they do does not have the difficulty level nor is the work strategic.  Typcial Level 1 HR paper pushers.

just think that perception will most quickly and meaningfully be improved by raising the bar of HR performance, not by raising the bar of HR credentialing.

I agree with you that the HR performance does need to be raised in all areas.  However, like many fields - medical, legal, accounting - your credentials help raise the standards for the profession and with them comes increases skill.

[gradoften06]

The growth of UP will not be restricted by student loan eligibility rules.

There would need to be huge changes in eligibility for student loan programs for a school like UP to be in any danger. In order to become ineligible for most student loan programs, universities must have a default rate that averages over 25% over three years or a 40% default rate in a single year. Because default rates are only calculated in the two years after a student leaves university, there is little danger of UP or any other university losing their eligibility. In 2007, no universitiy failed the first measure and only two small technical schools failed the latter. Even if you do not meet these requirements, schools can seek an exemption if they teach students who are underrepresented or present special challenges. Anyone with experience at UP care to comment on how they will use this if needed?

With no fear of these regulations changing their business model, something else would need provide a check to their business model of expensive, low-quality education. I used to think poor reputation would sink them, but the school does a good job of placing blame on individual students for failures (e.g. we just provide the education , but the student must take responsibility) or the society at large (e.g. higher education is a national issue, and we have to do more for students to help them stay in college). Any other suggestions?