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[mystictechgal]

Pragmatically, I would follow LarryC's advice and then wait until I had my degree in hand before I thought about going against an established icon of the College without some pretty serious evidence. This guy is a predatory jerk, but he's not stupid. Obviously, I don't know the College, but it's hard to believe people aren't aware of what this guy does.

Document, document, document. Protect yourself, especially if the behavior escalates.

Yes, absolutely. This is why I had suggested writing a letter after this a**hole has no recourse for retaliation.

There is no way that you, OP, are the first. Nor will you likely be the last. This guy probably has a reputation. And if he does, you can be sure that admin has gotten wind of it.

If you send a letter, detailing exactly what your experiences with this professor have been, they will be under a legal obligation to investigate.

While I understand the logic behind your suggestion of waiting, I wonder... If once the student is no longer a student does the college still have a responsibility to act?  Granted, they should still act, and if they're smart they will.  This creep is a time bomb waiting to explode all over the uni.  But, there's no guarantee that they will act.  As some have suggested, it is entirely possible that they do know about him, and they may have gotten that knowledge from similar letters written after the fact.  That may be part of the reason he's still around, if that's the case.  Once the student graduates they have no more responsibility to the student and, I believe, no legal responsibility to do a thing.   

Good luck, OP.  You've gotten some really good advice here, and I agree with the others: You do not deserve this and should not have to be dealing with it.  I'm sorry you're having to do so.  Good luck.

[larryc]

I disagree that the guy will be afraid of punishment and not retaliate.  He will probably not be afraid of retaliation, esp, if he has done this sort of thing before without consequence, and most esp. if he is a tenured bigshot.  Instead, I think he will retaliate, and he may well have institutional allies helping him to do so-- how old is he, what is the nature of the school, etc.?  I would say, because this is dangerous for the student, and in any case professor's behavior is disgusting and unacceptable, that she needs to go on the offensive immediately, and that *she cannot handle this alone*.  Uni's first instinct will be to try to cover, etc., and it would seem easier to default by trying to throw her under the bus than anything else. 

K16 speaks some hard wisdom here. The people who are supposed to help the OP may in fact be more interested in protecting the university and the perpetrator of the harassment. We have heard such stories more than once on these boards.

I still think you should tell the old goat clearly and forcefully that you are uncomfortable and that you insist he stop. Tell us if that works.

[kaysixteen]

As I see it, the problem with this would be that as soon as she complains to the dirtbag, he may go on the instant preemptory offensive against her, and he has far more resources at his likely disposal, let alone far more experience, etc., to help him do this, than she does.  Next thing she knows, she could be fighting off bogus charges against herself... another question to ponder here wrt the suggestion made repeatedly here (which I do agree with, of course), that she 'document' everything, is that, well... exactly what good would it do her six months from now to show up at some admin's office with a list of inappropriate things he has supposedly done?  She could easily have fabricated such a list, especially if she has by then been accused of malfeasance herself.  Assume the worst ahead of time, that this relationship is unsalvageable, and act to protect yourself.

[grasshopper]

Pragmatically, I would follow LarryC's advice and then wait until I had my degree in hand before I thought about going against an established icon of the College without some pretty serious evidence. This guy is a predatory jerk, but he's not stupid. Obviously, I don't know the College, but it's hard to believe people aren't aware of what this guy does.

Document, document, document. Protect yourself, especially if the behavior escalates.

Yes, absolutely. This is why I had suggested writing a letter after this a**hole has no recourse for retaliation.

There is no way that you, OP, are the first. Nor will you likely be the last. This guy probably has a reputation. And if he does, you can be sure that admin has gotten wind of it.

If you send a letter, detailing exactly what your experiences with this professor have been, they will be under a legal obligation to investigate.

While I understand the logic behind your suggestion of waiting, I wonder... If once the student is no longer a student does the college still have a responsibility to act?  Granted, they should still act, and if they're smart they will.  This creep is a time bomb waiting to explode all over the uni.  But, there's no guarantee that they will act.  As some have suggested, it is entirely possible that they do know about him, and they may have gotten that knowledge from similar letters written after the fact.  That may be part of the reason he's still around, if that's the case.  Once the student graduates they have no more responsibility to the student and, I believe, no legal responsibility to do a thing.  

I suppose this is another one of Those Things (bah on things!) that is institution-specific. But I have seen two cases where students came forward with allegations of harassment after they had graduated, and in both cases, the institution went the distance.

As I see it, the problem with this would be that as soon as she complains to the dirtbag, he may go on the instant preemptory offensive against her, and he has far more resources at his likely disposal, let alone far more experience, etc., to help him do this, than she does.  Next thing she knows, she could be fighting off bogus charges against herself... another question to ponder here wrt the suggestion made repeatedly here (which I do agree with, of course), that she 'document' everything, is that, well... exactly what good would it do her six months from now to show up at some admin's office with a list of inappropriate things he has supposedly done?  She could easily have fabricated such a list, especially if she has by then been accused of malfeasance herself.  Assume the worst ahead of time, that this relationship is unsalvageable, and act to protect yourself.

I don't think that salvaging the relationship is at the heart of anyone's intentions here. But yes, launching a full-scale complaint while she remains a student could indeed result in some seriously problematic fall-out.

But if she waits six months out, and the prof doesn't know that she intends to file a complaint, why would there be any complaints leveled against her?

[melba_frilkins]

Whatever you do, don't go it alone. Tell your friends, even just to vent. Bring along a friend if you have to go to his office. And talk to someone in a position of authority on campus, even if not to file a complaint, but just to get advice.  This is a yucky situation to be, and if you keep it to yourself, it just seems worse, and you feel more helpless. Talk to real people in real time, not just us here online.


Ask for permission to audio-record his lectures. Keep the recording going while he's having the after-class chats with you. I suspect he might tone down if he thinks about being recorded. If not, you've got some nice documentation to pass along.

[temporaryname]

I'm disturbed by the suggestions to wait to report this so as to avoid repercussions (in grading, presumably). First of all, that makes the OP a bit complicit in anything that goes on from this point further, but also, it would seem to me that reporting this now would help the OP in case there are repercussions for, say, turning away the unwelcome advances being sent her way.

Seriously, this has to be reported right away. There are potential downsides to that course of action, but none that aren't outweighed by the potential downsides of not doing so.

[anthroid]

I'm disturbed by the suggestions to wait to report this so as to avoid repercussions (in grading, presumably). First of all, that makes the OP a bit complicit in anything that goes on from this point further, but also, it would seem to me that reporting this now would help the OP in case there are repercussions for, say, turning away the unwelcome advances being sent her way.

Seriously, this has to be reported right away. There are potential downsides to that course of action, but none that aren't outweighed by the potential downsides of not doing so.

Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  I understand her misgivings but she really has to put something in motion now.  If nothing else, she should tell her folks and let them run with it.  I know that usually this would be my exact opposite advice to college students/young adults, but in this case OP needs a ton of support, and outraged parents (or siblings, or an aunt, or whomever, armed with a FERPA waiver) can serve a very useful role here.

[fishbrains]

I'm disturbed by the suggestions to wait to report this so as to avoid repercussions (in grading, presumably). First of all, that makes the OP a bit complicit in anything that goes on from this point further, but also, it would seem to me that reporting this now would help the OP in case there are repercussions for, say, turning away the unwelcome advances being sent her way.

Seriously, this has to be reported right away. There are potential downsides to that course of action, but none that aren't outweighed by the potential downsides of not doing so.

I don't know about that. What genuine proof does the OP have that Professor Perv has done anything? Again, this guy doesn't sound stupid or self-destructive (it doesn't sound like he wants to be caught). It's he said/she said at this point, and he's got the juice on campus. Her case will go nowhere, and she risks retribution on several different levels if she goes forward without anything concrete.

It's not fair, it's not right, it's not particularly noble, and I don't like typing it; but the OP has to be really careful here. I would still go with LarryC's advice and tell this guy to back way, way off. Get the degree first and then pounce.
 

[cgfunmathguy]

I'm disturbed by the suggestions to wait to report this so as to avoid repercussions (in grading, presumably). First of all, that makes the OP a bit complicit in anything that goes on from this point further, but also, it would seem to me that reporting this now would help the OP in case there are repercussions for, say, turning away the unwelcome advances being sent her way.

Seriously, this has to be reported right away. There are potential downsides to that course of action, but none that aren't outweighed by the potential downsides of not doing so.

I don't know about that. What genuine proof does the OP have that Professor Perv has done anything? Again, this guy doesn't sound stupid or self-destructive (it doesn't sound like he wants to be caught). It's he said/she said at this point, and he's got the juice on campus. Her case will go nowhere, and she risks retribution on several different levels if she goes forward without anything concrete.

It's not fair, it's not right, it's not particularly noble, and I don't like typing it; but the OP has to be really careful here. I would still go with LarryC's advice and tell this guy to back way, way off. Get the degree first and then pounce. 

Yes, you go with Larry's advice and tell him to back off. However, if he doesn't, there have to be repercussions for HIM. This will not happen if OP allows herself to be talked into waiting until the degree is in hand.

OP, talk to someone in authority. At most places, any college employee to whom you talk about this is required to report it to the appropriate office. Your choices are your advisor (yes, this person is supposed to advocate for you), a trusted professor, the department chair, the Dean of Students, the counseling/Women's Resource Center, and Human Resources. For my money, the Dean of Students is your best bet, as this person's sole job on campus is to interact with the students and make sure all is fine in Studentland. The academic dean/provost is a faculty advocate and may not be helpful to start. My second choice would be the counseling/Women's Resource center.

I wish you will, and I will chime with d_f_b. As a male professor, these guys sicken me. They make it difficult for the rest of the male professors to interact with female students because the students have learned not to trust male professors due to this guy's actions. Get the ball rolling now, and tell him to back off.

[myohmy]

Thank you all for the insightful advice. You've definitely given me a lot to chew on. I really appreciate just knowing that it IS a problem and it isn't just me overreacting. I think my main issue with visiting the Dean of Students is that my first instruction would likely be to drop the class (I don't know if they can force me) and I don't have another $25K to spend on an extra semester. In addition, if I did find out, I go to a small school, and I'm worried he would find out. There isn't really an official "grade appeal" process here, and there wouldn't be much recourse for me if I did disagree with a grade (but he grades papers by letter grades and without rubrics, so I wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on if I did appeal the grade anyway).

I will take the advice to bring a friend with me next time I visit his office hours -- though honestly, I really do not plan on visiting his office hours again. I will try and leave as soon as I can post-class. The times I've stayed, it's been because he's asked me (for example, he handed back our proposals and as I was leaving, he stood by my desk, put his hand on my shoulder, and asked me to stay for a minute. I don't think it would have been all right if I had just said, "No" -- but maybe if it happens again it would be? That's when he asked me if I'd met anyone I'd been interested in lately, and I awkwardly laughed and left as quickly ans I feasibly could.).

The prof has been here for a long time, I don't know exactly how many years. He is well known around campus, and oddly, I've had friends who have taken his classes (granted, all male) that really enjoyed them. Perhaps my experiences with him are coloring my views of his teaching.

I like the letter idea post-graduation. I am worried about "making waves" while I am here - both because it is a small school with little promise of anonymity and because I don't know how much of a leg I have to stand on here. In any other situation I would tell a guy forcefully to back off - but this is my professor and he holds my grade in his hands, and I am worried if I tell him, "That makes me uncomfortable and you need to stop NOW" it will mean doing poorly in a class required for the major (I need a B- or better).

I think I will visit our women's center to see if there are any resources available to me. If not, I suppose it's just a matter of waiting out the semester and avoiding him...

Thanks again everyone for all your help, and if anyone has any more suggestions, I would really appreciate them.

[skinnymargarita]

First, I have to say sorry that you have to deal with this.

Second, keep a low profile. Stay out of his way. Don't talk to him, just email questions (that way there is a record.)

Don't let this stop you from reaching your goals. Stay out of his way. Just kinda fade into the woodwork. Do good work in his class so you pass then you can move on. The big picture is to take care of yourself, which means passing the course so you are achieving your dreams! (It is really important to choose your battles!)

Good luck!

[lurquita]

At the beginning of the semester, I was confused about an assignment and visited his office hours. While I received some clarification on the assignment, parts of it were still unclear to me, and I asked what I should do. He responded that he wouldn't mind if I "came by his place" some evening to talk about it further. I asked whether he was talking about a group of students (maybe some sort of study group?) and he told me, "I think we can handle it on our own."

He sat next to me in our campus coffee shop (fine, though he was sitting a little closer than I would have preferred) and started asking questions that made me hugely uncomfortable, like whether I had partied or hooked up with anyone the previous weekend.

He sometimes asks me to stay after class and while he doesn't do anything overt, he has asked if there are men in my life, reiterated his suggestion that I study at his house, commented on my appearance, etc.

he hasn't actually done anything and it is just a gut feeling I have.

You say "He hasn't actually done anything" but look at the material I left in the quote, above.

I am short, young-looking, cheerful, and somewhat informal with my students.  IIt would never cross my mind to ask a student if he or she were hooking up the previous weekend.  After "party weekends" like Halloween or Homecoming, if I have a class-ful of obviously hungover students, I (depending on the general ambience of the class) might make a joke about Demon Rum or something, but single out one student to ask about party activities?  No.

I would never EVER have a student to my house unless it was a group of students and done in a very open, above-board way.  TWICE in my life I have done this, and it was while at a SLAC where this was encouraged.  I repeat: the entire class was there and it was a group breakfast/one last get-together before the exam in one case and a group lunch and thank-you-for-one-of-the-best-classes-I've-ever-taught function.

I don't ask my students about boyfriends/girlfriends or partners of any sort.  It's none of my business.

That said, many students think of me as someone they can really talk to, someone who cares about them personally, etc.  And it's true.  They can talk to me and I do care.  But I do not solicit personal information, and if they offer it I allow only a certain level of self-disclosure before gently setting the boundaries.

Your professor is grooming you to see how much you'll tolerate.  He wants to see how you respond to manipulation and subtle sexual bullying. 

I'd read all the good advice you have gotten so far from the forum.  My input here is to give you some food for thought (I hope it helped) and also to ask: can you or would you change your grade to pass/no pass?  At my uni, the professor does not get to know if the student has a pass/no pass grade.  This way, it would be hard for Professor Pervy to give you an F if you earned an A or a B.

If not, then you have to decide how much the grade matters to you.  If you feel like you'll be terribly upset or affected if you are given a B when you earned an A, for instance, then you need to keep meticulous records and you have to make sure that there is a paper trail and all of that.  Only you can decide if that is something towards which to direct energy.

Meantime, do not doubt your instincts.  Your instincts are sound.  This person has crossed lines with you.  No respectful, decent, caring professor that I know would behave this way with a student.  You have every right to be perturbed.

Take care, and let us know how things go for you.

Lurquita

[lurquita]

 I will try and leave as soon as I can post-class. The times I've stayed, it's been because he's asked me (for example, he handed back our proposals and as I was leaving, he stood by my desk, put his hand on my shoulder, and asked me to stay for a minute.

He put his hand on you?  While you were sitting and he was standing?

That's a dominance gesture right there.

Just reading this makes me angry.  

Keep us posted, do.

Meantime...I am so sorry that you are going through this.  

Lurquita

[systeme_d_]

I'm glad you checked back in, Myohmy.  There's been lots of fantastic advice here for you, I think.

In reply to your latest post, yes, yes, yes this IS a problem, and it is absolutely, positively okay if, when asked to stay after class, you just say "No."  Grab a classmate to stay with you if staying for a moment is completely unavoidable.

I think that going to the women's center to seek out campus-specific resources is a wonderful idea.

Although this guy may have been getting away with this for a long time, odds are very, very good that yours will not be the first complaint.  Behavior like this is almost always a pattern, and it needs to be stopped.  

(If I were at your college, I'd personally rip him a new one, since as a tenured professor, I have sufficient connections and sufficient job safety to do so.  This makes me think that if you trust another professor who is tenured and who you perceive as able to be a help to you, you might wish to speak to that person as well.)

And although he has power over you as a professor who will be grading your work, you have the power to stop his harassment.  You do.  You need only choose the method that is least likely to hurt you.  In an ideal world, you would also be free to choose the method that would be most likely to stop him for once and for all.  In your case, this may (or may not!) have to wait until you are out of his class.  I hope the women's center folks are helpful to you.

My best wishes to you, Myohmy.

[myohmy]

Unfortunately, it is impossible to take the class P/F since P/F classes cannot be counted toward the major. Because this is a required major course, a grade of B- or above is required to count it. I have already been accepted to graduate school so the grade itself actually matters very little to me, except that it could prevent my graduation.

On preview: he did put his hand on my shoulder, which coming from him felt wrong, but other professors have done that in different situations and haven't induced that type of reaction from me, so I feel a bit hypocritical.