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macaroon
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« Reply #45 on: October 31, 2009, 09:42:58 PM » |
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This article seems to assume that graduate students somehow want to have babies, and are not having them. Is that a given that students or certain ages WANT to have children? As in, "I want to go to graduate school-I guess I just won't be able to have a baby."
When I was in grad school ('98 to '03), a lot of other students wanted to have children. Many were married when they entered, or got married within the first couple of years. It's very common for couples that have been married for two or three years to want a baby. |
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fizmath
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« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2009, 10:03:26 PM » |
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In my physics department, the few students I knew who had kids would have the stork show up about one year or less from graduation. I think some of the students from China were more likely to have a spouse and kids with them during their whole time in school. I have no idea how they managed that financially.
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ghillbilly
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2009, 04:19:28 PM » |
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This is another reason why online doctoral programs are well suited for the adult learner. If you want to start a family, apply your education, and establish yourself in your chosen career, you can. If you chose to go straight from undergrad to a B&M graduate school and not work, then you will have to sacrifice something...money, flexibility, and sometimes a family.
It should pay off in the end.
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lorelei
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« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2009, 05:03:47 PM » |
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This is another reason why online doctoral programs are well suited for the adult learner. If you want to start a family, apply your education, and establish yourself in your chosen career, you can. If you chose to go straight from undergrad to a B&M graduate school and not work, then you will have to sacrifice something...money, flexibility, and sometimes a family.
It should pay off in the end.
Would everyone here who has an academic job and a PhD from an online program please raise their hand? |
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kedves
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2009, 06:04:45 PM » |
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This is another reason why online doctoral programs are well suited for the adult learner. If you want to start a family, apply your education, and establish yourself in your chosen career, you can. If you chose to go straight from undergrad to a B&M graduate school and not work, then you will have to sacrifice something...money, flexibility, and sometimes a family.
It should pay off in the end.
Would everyone here who has an academic job and a PhD from an online program please raise their hand? Why--you're not saying that for academic careers, an online Ph.D. is not usually considered to be equivalent in value to the training provided by a traditional Ph.D.? Are you? |
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janewales
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« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2009, 08:35:17 PM » |
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It would have been useful for the writer to look at trends/ behaviours in countries with different health care and parental leave systems, to see how these affect decisions about when to have children. For example, in Canada the medical costs of having a child are covered by the universal healthcare system, so a grad student wouldn't be deterred by that aspect of the baby price tag. But while grad students are entitled to take leave from their programs to have children, they usually can't access the federally-funded maternity leave system, because they're not normally considered employees for this purpose (a grad student who also had a full-time job would be a different case). Maternity/ parental leave in Canada provides for about 12 months of paid leave (divided into a maternity leave period and a parental leave period), and so there is a powerful financial incentive for waiting until one has been employed the minimum amount of time, before taking this leave. Note, too, that parental leave can be taken by men and/ or women (that is, parents can split it between two parents, and note too that these can be same-sex parents), and by adopting parents. These leaves typically stop the tenure clock, again for men or women alike. So in Canada, against the flexibility of grad school, you have to consider the financial support that typically comes once one is employed.
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smallways
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« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2009, 11:25:10 AM » |
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So in Canada, against the flexibility of grad school, you have to consider the financial support that typically comes once one is employed.
Another good thing about Canada: at least the major federal grants for doctoral students in the humanities and social sciences (SSHRC) will give you a full term of paid maternity leave. If you're lucky enough to win one, the rate of pay would be (I think) higher than standard mat leave. |
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post_functional
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« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2009, 02:48:50 AM » |
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This is another reason why online doctoral programs are well suited for the adult learner. If you want to start a family, apply your education, and establish yourself in your chosen career, you can. If you chose to go straight from undergrad to a B&M graduate school and not work, then you will have to sacrifice something...money, flexibility, and sometimes a family.
It should pay off in the end.
Would everyone here who has an academic job and a PhD from an online program please raise their hand? Why--you're not saying that for academic careers, an online Ph.D. is not usually considered to be equivalent in value to the training provided by a traditional Ph.D.? Are you? Good point. For now. Not sure it will still be in twenty years. My wife and I had our one and only when we were both in grad school. Without wanting to divulge too much, there was a medical imperative such that if we wanted to have kids at all, we had a narrow window and had to do it, or risk never doing it. So we did it, feeling that there "never really is a perfect time" to do it. My experience has been that the traditional gender attitudes apply. I have been fortunate to find new work in part, I am certain, because of the subtext in which the males who hired me sympathized with a young new father with a wife and baby to support. My wife, on the other hand, has been met with newly formed subtle skepticism in her department since our baby's arrival. At least it's subtle, though, and not overt, as some here have experienced. |
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« Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 02:50:42 AM by post_functional »
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Action is his reward.
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inthelab
Where beloved molecules abide
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 4,241
Who knew?
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« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2009, 08:30:29 AM » |
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You cannot do an online PhD worth anything in any topic that requires fieldwork or labwork. Think about it.
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inthelab, I love you for that.
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post_functional
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« Reply #54 on: November 18, 2009, 02:23:17 PM » |
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I didn't say all online PhDs would be equally valuable in twenty years. I just said that in twenty years, an online PhD may not be the automatic cause to snoot that it is now. In some disciplines that could very well be the case.
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Action is his reward.
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inthelab
Where beloved molecules abide
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 4,241
Who knew?
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« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2009, 08:33:46 AM » |
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I didn't say all online PhDs would be equally valuable in twenty years. I just said that in twenty years, an online PhD may not be the automatic cause to snoot that it is now. In some disciplines that could very well be the case.
Somehow I doubt it. A PhD is not just mastery of coursework, it's learning from a mentor: an advisor. You need the day-to-day contact or some physical presence to leanr the mentor's wisdom, methodologies, prejudices (so you can avoid them), and so forth. Plus the mentor introduces you to the big shots in your career, who help you get fellowships or jobs or give you recommendations, or whathaveyou. You need to network to succeed. Actually meeting someone will help you more than a cold call or e-mail will. On edit: being in a B&M program also teaches you skills like teaching, giving presentations, solicitng feedback on your writing, etc. I fail to see how being online does this. Who will you give your diss defense to? Your monitor? |
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« Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 08:35:21 AM by inthelab »
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inthelab, I love you for that.
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post_functional
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« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2009, 04:09:28 PM » |
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Are you kidding? That goes on now. My wife's outside-department dissertation committee member will attend her defense by webcam.
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Action is his reward.
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thundering_m
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« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2009, 06:02:22 AM » |
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We routinely have our masters orals via DE, given that the faculty are widely dispersed among the centers statewide and the student may be situated near one of them.
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-TM
Thundering Marshmallow
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ghillbilly
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« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2009, 06:38:36 PM » |
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A PhD is not just mastery of coursework, it's learning from a mentor: an advisor. You need the day-to-day contact or some physical presence to leanr the mentor's wisdom, methodologies, prejudices (so you can avoid them), and so forth. Plus the mentor introduces you to the big shots in your career, who help you get fellowships or jobs or give you recommendations, or whathaveyou. You need to network to succeed. Actually meeting someone will help you more than a cold call or e-mail will. On edit: being in a B&M program also teaches you skills like teaching, giving presentations, solicitng feedback on your writing, etc. I fail to see how being online does this. Who will you give your diss defense to? Your monitor?
You sound a little uneducated on this issue. You do realize that graduate students from on-line universities have mentors right? Mine called me this morning...she lives in California and teaches at UCLA, but I'm pretty sure the distance won't stop her from introducing me to the "big shots" or passing on her "wisdom". Also, my professors give me feedback on my writing just like yours. As far as getting experience getting up in front of people and speaking? I've been in the corporate world for 20 years...don't need any help there. |
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grasshopper
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« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2009, 10:13:39 PM » |
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A PhD is not just mastery of coursework, it's learning from a mentor: an advisor. You need the day-to-day contact or some physical presence to leanr the mentor's wisdom, methodologies, prejudices (so you can avoid them), and so forth. Plus the mentor introduces you to the big shots in your career, who help you get fellowships or jobs or give you recommendations, or whathaveyou. You need to network to succeed. Actually meeting someone will help you more than a cold call or e-mail will. On edit: being in a B&M program also teaches you skills like teaching, giving presentations, solicitng feedback on your writing, etc. I fail to see how being online does this. Who will you give your diss defense to? Your monitor?
You sound a little uneducated on this issue. You do realize that graduate students from on-line universities have mentors right? Mine called me this morning...she lives in California and teaches at UCLA, but I'm pretty sure the distance won't stop her from introducing me to the "big shots" or passing on her "wisdom". Also, my professors give me feedback on my writing just like yours. As far as getting experience getting up in front of people and speaking? I've been in the corporate world for 20 years...don't need any help there. "Uneducated on this issue"? Are you kidding me? You do realize that Inthelab is actually a university professor, right? So, I'm thinking that if anybody knows what it takes to make it in the biz, it's someone who's actually made it in the biz. Wouldn't you say? Anyway, it's not the same. The job market is so incredibly tight right now that you need every single advantage. A B&M degree, whether you like it or not, is valued more highly than an online one. My advisor knows me as a person. He knows how I interact with other people, because he's watched me do this over the course of many years, in many different situations. He's seen how I handle hairy situations. He's seen how I handle stress. He's seen me deliver lectures and presentations. He has watched me respond on the fly to criticism. He's watched me sitting across a desk from him as I struggle and sweat through nasty roadblocks in my learning, and come out on the other side. When he recommends me for a job, he can speak to more than just my intellectual abilities as he sees them on paper. More than that, in my graduate program, I have been able to forge both personal and professional relationships with my fellow students. These fellow students will one day become my work colleagues. We know each others' work. We collaborate. We are building a network. An online degree doesn't offer that. Because I'm in an actual university, I'm also more closely plugged in to conference and publication possibilities. I can't count the number of times I've run into someone in the hall, and we've come up with something - some conference that we'll carpool to, or some panel that we'll put together, or some lecture that someone wants me to give on this or that. I've also had the opportunity to teach courses at my grad university. If I'd been doing the degree online, that wouldn't have been an option. If you're just getting a graduate degree so you can move up a pay scale, that's one thing. Then it doesn't really matter much where you go or what you study. But if you want to be an academic, then every single thing counts. |
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