octoprof
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 30,822
Life is short. Love your loved ones while you can.
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« on: October 27, 2009, 08:26:42 PM » |
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So I'm walking down the hall looking dejected after several hours of grading graduate research papers that are crap. Tenured colleague walks by and says,"What's up, Octo?"
Me: I've been grading graduate research papers.
Him: <shaking head> Oh, they write such crap for me. It's just awful. I don't know how anyone can read that stuff.
Me: I can't believe some of this. One 10 page paper cites the textbook 17 times. I don't see how they think reading the textbook is research. I give them very clear instructions and requirements. But they do not pay attention to them.
Him: That's typical!
Me: And, in another one, 80% of the paragraphs in the paper have no cites to sources and they are clearly full of information from sources. That's plagiarism!
Him: Oh, do you really expect them to provide all that attribution.
Me: Of course. Otherwise, they are plagiarizing ideas from other people, i.e. authors of these articles they've read.
Him: Oh, no, that's not plagiarism!
Me: Really? You have the grad students write research papers in your grad class, right?
Him: Yes.
Me: And you do not require them to cite their sources, providing attribution within the text.
Him: Only for the direct quotations, of course. If they didn't do that, they'd be plagiarizing.
Me: But you let them use ideas from sources without attribution?
Him: Yes, of course. Otherwise, they cite something at the end of every sentence nearly and I hate that.
Me: What's wrong with that?
Him: Well, it's so unnecessary.
Me: Are you sure these are research papers you are assigning?
Him: Yes, why do you ask?
Me: Because I was taught that, and I teach my students that, they must always cite the source of any ideas they use.
Him: Really? Don't they tend to overcite?
Me: Yes, sometimes, but that's easier to correct than plagiarism.
Him: Oh, that's really not plagiarism since they didn't use quotations.
Me: So you write that way in your papers you submit to journals?
Him: No, of course not, but those are empirical papers.
Me: Empirical or not, the rules of citing and attribution and plagiarism are all the same.
Him: No, these students don't need to know all that, really.
Me: They don't? Well, I have been attempting to teach each group that every year. Maybe the reason we both see such variation in quality of the papers is we are giving them totally different instructions and teaching them totally different norms.
Him: Perhaps. I just think we aren't communicating. It's not like I teach them to plagiarize.
Me: Are you sure these are research papers, not essays or thought pieces, that you are assigning?
Him: Yes, of course I'm sure. The students don't need to worry about all that attribution, except for quotations. I'm very strict on quotations, of course. But, they aren't plagiarizing.
Me: Ya think?
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It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities. Professor Dumbledore
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msparticularity
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« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2009, 10:37:23 PM » |
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Oh, wow-- I never realized we were in the same department!
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"Once admit that the sole verifiable or fruitful object of knowledge is the particular set of changes that generate the object of study...and no intelligible question can be asked about what, by assumption, lies outside." John Dewey
"Be particular." Jill Conner Browne
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higherandhigher
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 02:41:25 AM » |
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Maybe hu got tenure via plagiarism.
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mad_doctor
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 03:15:39 AM » |
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Colleague: Where're we going today, mad_doctor?
me: I dunno... What about that place with Guiness on tap?
Colleague: OOoo, yeah, they have steak tips on Tuesday.
me: I don't have class until 3. Whose turn is it?
Colleague: Me neither. This one's on me.
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arty_
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« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2009, 06:05:52 PM » |
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"I voted to hire you even though I thought you might be a lesbian"
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cranefly
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 12:34:50 PM » |
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"I voted to hire you even though I thought you might be a lesbian"
hA! I love this one... the implication being "look how progressive I am"... the reality being, "look what a jackash I am!" |
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oatmeal
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 03:54:57 PM » |
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"I love assessment." Seriously...
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mirandaf
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2009, 12:31:19 AM » |
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I'm too tired to recall specifics, but "favorite" conversations usually involve one or more longtime, long-tenured colleagues who mistakenly believe they're sooo witty and clever (read: boring), telling insider jokes about Dr. So-and-So in Accounting (for instance), of whom I've never heard. Or throwing *knowing* glances at each other when they discuss Dr. This-and-That who really knows where all the bodies are buried around here. "And remember that time at the faculty senate meeting, back in 1893, when Betty had finally had it with Susan - remember that, Don? - and she went up to her and... <chuckling> not that you'd remember any of this, Miranda. Gosh, you're so cute, toiling away in your office. Working so hard. I just love all you untenured youngsters. You have such energy. I just love it. You know Frank here is on the tenure and promotion committee, right? So you'd better be nice to him. <laughs>"
Die. Just die.
I'm also especially fond of tenured colleagues who remind you in every conversation that you're untenured and had better be careful about ___________ [fill in the blank].
Wait. Just wait.
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I am some stranger on the internet advising you about your uterus. I am not sure how much weight you should give to my advice. |
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barred_owl
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2009, 01:02:54 AM » |
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I might have told this story before, but I once had a colleague ask me for an explanation of the requirements one of his perky, blond, female advisees must meet in order to "...get her bachelorette degree." He seriously thought the word "bachelorette" was correct.
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...I can't help rooting for the underdog underbird. |
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pinkmouse
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2009, 03:22:00 AM » |
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I might have told this story before, but I once had a colleague ask me for an explanation of the requirements one of his perky, blond, female advisees must meet in order to "...get her bachelorette degree." He seriously thought the word "bachelorette" was correct.
Is he this guy? http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,64014.0.html |
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larryc
Hu hatin'
Distinguished Senior Member
Posts: 17,572
Eschew the hu.
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2009, 03:27:46 AM » |
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Colleague (for the 100th time): Why don't you get a Mac?
What I can't say: Because Macs are for girls and I am a boy.
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barred_owl
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« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2009, 03:33:32 AM » |
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I might have told this story before, but I once had a colleague ask me for an explanation of the requirements one of his perky, blond, female advisees must meet in order to "...get her bachelorette degree." He seriously thought the word "bachelorette" was correct.
Is he this guy? http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,64014.0.htmlEwww...I hope not. Never knew this former colleague to be quite that bold, but, come to think of it....he was single and kind of a loner. Nah, couldn't be him. Could it? |
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...I can't help rooting for the underdog underbird. |
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dr_golightly
New member
Posts: 33
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2009, 12:26:49 PM » |
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I had the same exact conversation, with my colleague claiming that publishers don't want too many citations. Even if true, it is the job of apprentice scholars to cite the crap out of their sources to prove they can manage them.
I just graded a grad student paper--a literature review that included one of my articles--and he summarized the entire article using my EXACT words. He did cite the article, but the many sentences that were lifted verbatim from my text did not have quote marks. Why is it again that grad student cannot get a grade below a C?
This is a PhD student who got Bs and Cs in his courses, failed his quals, and is now taking a first year introductory survey (yes, our grad students need it) so he can prepare to take them again. He's also an older dude.
WTF?? Is it any sort of kindness inflicted upon him by the department to let him continue?
Now I am going elsewhere to rant more about these "graduate" "students."
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darkmatter
Member
Posts: 173
I snark therefore I am.
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2009, 01:03:46 PM » |
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A couple of years ago I noticed that an ID proponent was speaking on campus (obviously not sponsored by our science department). When I commented on this to one of my colleagues, she said, "Oh, I dunno. I think it's important to keep an open mind."
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didotwite
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2009, 01:15:44 PM » |
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Colleague (for the 100th time): Why don't you get a Mac?
What I can't say: Because Macs are for girls and I am a boy.
You didn't get the memo, Larryc: boys with macs are hot. |
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