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[word_nerd]

I searched the fora and was unable to find a thread on this topic, so here's my issue...

I am a first-year grad student.  Since early adolescence, I have had trouble staying awake in lecture situations fairly frequently.  I've had high school teachers joke about it, and college professors say, "Well, if that's what works for you..."  I've always been an excellent student regardless, but there are times when I literally CANNOT stay awake while listening to someone speak to a group.  I even fell asleep at my stepfather's funeral.

No amount of coffee will help; I will take a sip, then go right back to drowsing.  I pinch myself under the table, dig my nails into my palms, try to doodle to focus my eyes -- when I get into that drowsy state NOTHING in this world can correct it other than standing up and walking away.  It doesn't matter if I find the subject matter interesting, or not.  Highway hypnosis when driving is also something I've suffered from, from time to time.

I've always felt self-conscious about this problem -- of course I don't want to insult whoever is presenting by falling asleep while they're talking -- how disrespectful I must look!  Especially now that I am a grad student in small classes in a totally new school, I want to show the professor that I care and that I really am trying to pay attention.  I'll be doing pretty good, but then I'll start back to reality and realize I've lost a few seconds.  I try to play it off like I was just looking down at something, but of course, people aren't stupid...

I don't think it's bona fide narcolepsy, because it doesn't happen in most other sitting-still circumstances (reading, watching a movie, etc.), so I don't think I have or can get a medical excuse... I also wouldn't want to be burdened with needing some sort of special arrangements, even if I could.  I have always been naturally rather nocturnal -- my ideal sleep schedule would be 4 a.m. to 12 or 1 p.m.  -- and I've always been prone to feeling nappy in the daytime.  But no amount of schedule adjustment seems to reliably cure me of this tendency.

So, does anyone have some fail-safe stay-awake techniques they'd like to share?  I am in desperate need of a solution.  I want to nip this issue in the bud before it threatens to damage my reputation departmentally.

[wet_blanket]

I've had the same problem before, though nowhere near as severe. 

I find being cold helps, but there is a limit to how much clothing you can take off and of course classrooms are temperature controlled.  Standing up usually buys me some time, but it's not always appropriate.

What kind of seats are you on?  Could you (discreetly) use a stool? And sit away from a desk (write on your lap) so there's nothing to lean against?  Though then you run the risk of falling asleep AND falling onto the floor.

Sorry, no suggestions.  You may want to tell to your professors, not to get accommodations, but just so they don't think you're rude or disrespectful.

[sinenomine]

You say that getting up helps you; what about doing that?  I once had a student who had a back problems and needed to get up periodically to walk around.  She spoke to me about it, sat in the back or along the side of room, and didn't disturb anyone.

[kedves]

Do you fall asleep even when you are taking notes?

Also, naturally nocturnal or not, what is your actual sleep schedule and do you work to maintain it with your exercise, caffeine, and work habits? 

If you are being honest with yourself about your sleep requirements and doing what you need to achieve those over a period of a month or two, I think you should see a doctor.  The driving part of the account is worrisome.

[peppergal]

I have the same problem.  The nighttime driving thing I solve by not driving at night (I'm slightly night-blind anyway, so driving at night is just not a good idea).

For staying awake in lecture situations, I do a couple of things.  I've found that having something in my mouth helps (mints, hard candies, gum).  Also, physical activity within 45 minutes of going to the lecture (get those endorphines coursing through the body).  Anything I can do to make myself physically uncomfortable (hard chair, sitting at an angle so I have to turn my head to see the speaker) also makes it less likely that I will fall asleep.  Finally, taking notes as if I were taking dictation helps me focus on the speaker and decreases the chance of falling asleep.  I even learned shorthand to be able to do this.

That's what helped me get through grad school.  But now, conferences are just torture, especially if I'm going to sessions back to back all day and don't get a chance to take a break to walk/jog/do yoga at some point during the day.  Then I get a friend to sit next to me and jab me in the leg randomly to keep me awake.

[egilson]

I have exactly the same problem. And, no, taking notes doesn't help; I have more than a few pages of notes that trail off into an indecipherable scrawl of sleep writing. It may be that things got better for me once I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes and started to get my blood glucose under control, but though there is a definite sudden sleepiness that I can associate with a trough in BG level, lecture dozing really doesn't seem to be associated with eaten/not having eaten. It's the act of sitting still and listening that does it.

The best things I can recommend are:

- Sit bold upright if you can.
- Forget coffee. Cold water is best.
- Moving my legs seems to help when moving my hands does not. If you can sit in a location where you can extend one leg, then the other, in a stretch, maybe that would help.

Finally, if it's really troublesome, you might want to ask your doctor. I suppose that narcolepsy or some sleep disturbance that leads to sleepiness which inactivity unmasks could be an issue here. I don't think I have those things; I think I'm just a spazz who can't sit still without nodding off.

[sweetcider]

I also have similar issues.  But, it's much less severe when I get enough sleep and have a consistent schedule.  I need to get 8 hours of sleep a night and am very good about my regular bedtime and wake up time.*  One night of too little sleep is enough for me to notice. 

*When I'm on a good schedule in general, I can get away with a later bedtime on the weekends if I still get the 8 hours. 

[macaroon]

Talk to your doctor, because it sounds to me like you have narcolepsy.  There are pills for that - Ritalin and Provigil. 

Barring that, I found that munching on those Rold Gold pretzel sticks is very effective.

[pilgrimduke]

Word_Nerd, I'd get to a doctor.  Another possibility is sleep apnea.  I was falling asleep when working and I thought that I was getting more than enough sleep.  After staying at the sleep clinic overnight I found that I was waking up over 90 times an hour.  I'm on a CPAP machine and it has made a tremendous difference.  I don't know all the ins and outs of causes, but in my case the cause is probably my weight.

[word_nerd]

What kind of seats are you on?  Could you (discreetly) use a stool? And sit away from a desk (write on your lap) so there's nothing to lean against? 

They're pretty cushy task chairs, but other, harder chairs in the past haven't made a difference.  I don't think I've seen a stool anywhere in the building, and to bring one along with me from class to class would feel a bit silly.

You say that getting up helps you; what about doing that?  I once had a student who had a back problems and needed to get up periodically to walk around.  She spoke to me about it, sat in the back or along the side of room, and didn't disturb anyone.

The problem with this is that our classes are very small (generally 6-8 students) and we sit around a meeting table with the professor in a room just large enough to hold the table.  There is no way my getting up would not be a distraction.  If someone so much comes to class late and tries to sneak in quietly, the entire flow of the class is disrupted.

My lifestyle is what I consider healthy; I generally get 7-9 hours of sleep, forcing myself to be in bed by 12:15 even though I would prefer to stay up much later.  I eat healthily, usually limit my caffeine intake to a couple cups of coffee early in the day, get about an hour of exercise each weekday (bike commute), and make sure to have dinner with my husband most nights (and we have a glass of wine or two together to de-stress before bed).  I don't know if sleep apnea is only a weight thing, but I clock in dead center of the "healthy" range on a BMI scale, so if it is, that seems unlikely.  Once in awhile, I do stay up too late (for example, if an assignment takes way longer than I expected, or if I get a holy-sh!t-ton of student emails to answer for the class I TA), and I definitely feel it more on the day following, but it's rather rare, and I make up for it by sleeping till noon on the weekend.  As for the driving, it happens only on long trips, and I make sure to give myself extra time to pull over and nap if I must -- rest stops are my friend!

I liked the suggestions about eating/chewing something; as far as I know, I've never fallen asleep while eating.  Water works no better for me than coffee, drink-wise, but food might work.  Seeing a doctor is probably a good idea, too... I owe one a visit since a couple weeks ago when I tried to give blood and they said I didn't have enough iron.  Come to think of it, isn't tiredness one of the main symptoms of anemia?  Maybe doc will tell me I can fix it with a supplement of some kind...  anyway, thanks for all the suggestions!

[cgfunmathguy]

Fatigue is indeed a symptom of anemia (and other nutrient deficiencies).

Also, sleep apnea can be caused by things other than weight. The usual cause is the body's tendency to overrelax the muscles controlling the tongue and the soft palate, which then blocks to airway. Being overweight exacerbates the problem, but does not usually cause it.

I would talk to your instructors about standing up in class. It was a requirement when I was in schools in the navy, and I still do it now. It keeps me awake most of the time. Of course, I've also learned how to nap standing up.

Finally, some of us are just "scheduled people", whether we like it or not. I needed a nap at the same time every afternoon when I was a tot, and I still do, even if I've had a month of great sleep. You might be one of those.

[situbusit]

I don't think it's bona fide narcolepsy, because it doesn't happen in most other sitting-still circumstances (reading, watching a movie, etc.), so I don't think I have or can get a medical excuse...

Echoing the advice to see a doctor.  The fact that you've had, for years, a "fairly frequently" recurring problem that fails to respond to any typical, successful-for-most, remedy easily merits it (much less when the "highway hypnosis" problem is factored in).  The point of doing so is not to get a medical excuse, but a treatment. As macaroon said, it sounds like something Provigil could really help with.

[alto_stratus]

I don't know if this would work in your case.  Some people with limited attention span find playing with some sort of toy--stress ball, pipe cleaners, other little gadgets or puzzles--helpful for getting through lectures.  Keeping their hands busy helps them focus their brain on the lecture without getting bored.  Maybe if you could be more active in this way, it will help you stay awake without being too disruptive.

If you're still drinking coffee, I would see if the period of fatigue falls within a predictable period after the coffee--some people get a powerful rebound from drinking it.

[lolar2]

Definitely see a doctor. And thin people can have sleep apnea.

[collegekidsmom]

This can be a side effect of many medications, if that is a possibility. I also was going to mention sleep apnea.
I think this sleeping problem is kind of common. I have heard young people, especially, talk about falling asleep in the morning hours at the drop of a hat, while being able to study, work and play best late at night. The worst case is the high school students who must be in school at 7 a.m. or something and parents are always requesting a later start time to the school day.Then late at night parents have a hard time outlasting their late-night kids. I have heard of so many studies discussing this issue of older teenagers staying awake in the morning. Are you a young person? If so, this might improve over time.