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[firewalker03]

Hi everyone,

I have a couple of questions about admin positions and am hoping some of you have enough experience in the field to help answer them.

1) Do positions in Academic Advising and Career Counseling follow a certain time trend (for example, do they tend to be advertised early/middle/late in the academic year, similar to how tenure-track jobs are often advertised in the beginning of the academic year)?  Upon applying for an academic advising job, when might one expect to hear back for an interview?  I'm asking because my only experience with job applications is with tenure-track ones, which seem to follow a standard timeline protocol. I'm not sure if it's the same with Student Affairs/Academic Advising type jobs.

2)  If I were to accept a position as a Career Counselor for undergrads, would this kind of work preclude me from going into academic advising in the future?  Or, might it help?  What about the other way around (accept job as Academic Advisor, and make a switch to career counseling later)?  I have the same question about directing a writing and research center for students: would accepting such a position make it hard for me to go into academic advising later? I see all these positions as requiring similar skills, but I am curious about their transferability.

THANK YOU!

[sibyl]

1.  No they don't.  There are some observable peaks and valleys because of when search committees tend to meet, but there's nothing like the regular cycles of faculty searches, because they are not tied to fixed start and end dates.  There's no way to know how long you will have to wait for a callback; the fire-and-forget method still applies.

2.  No, there aren't rigid patterns in these fields.  You can go from career advising to academic advising or vice versa, although some institutions will have a less kindly view about skill transferability.  The writing center may be seen as a better prelude for academic advising if only because it is more directly connected to academics, but again that varies from institution to institution.  It's harder to find jobs in academic advising than career advising because a lot of underemployed faculty see it as a good port in the storm.

Good luck.

[firewalker03]

Thank you so much for your response Sibyl! :)

As you can probably tell from my post, I am shifting from traditional academia to the administrative track, and I want to make sure I can get a position that allows me to grow and be challenged. I have a Doctorate in Education and had a number of campus interviews for tenure track jobs, but I realized I didn't want any of them!  After realizing my "ultimate" goal was to be in a position that allowed me to work in higher education with students to promote academic success, I realized t-t is just one way (of many!) of meeting that goal.  I am now much more committed to be in Student Affairs - so far I have applied to positions in Academic Advising, Student Support Services, Career Counseling, Writing & Research Centers.  Do you have any other ideas of positions that might fit these goals?  Anything else I should be considering?  I am willing to do just about anything that would let me work with students (undergrad or grad) on academic/career affairs.  I figure if nothing pans out by say February, I'll start applying for adjunct positions.

THANKS AGAIN :) Much appreciated.

[dale1]

I think sibyl is certainly right about the hiring timelines for both career counselors and academic advisors.  I would suggest that you look into the professional organizations of both groups.  NACE is the one for career counselors (well, at least one), and NACADA is the national organization for advising. 

Keep in mind that these are two distinct fields, with different perspectives and skill sets.  That being said, it is my opinion (have been in the field of advising since 2004) that upper administration sees advising differently than what practitioners might see it as.  For instance, one Vice Chancellor/Provost indicated in a meeting with advisors that we were responsible for both career and academic advising.  Meaning that there is no distinction between career aspects and academic aspects.  We are seeing more joint appointments and expectations that advisors be aware and conversant in the career development literature, not to mention the (expanding) literature on academic advising practice.

Both areas are pretty competitive, and your doctorate should help.  Of course I would suggest joining one or both professional organizations, perhaps attending regional conferences, and so on, in order to bolster your credentials.  If you can write a scholarly piece and present at one of those events, that's even better. 

[firewalker03]

Thanks so much, dale1.  So helpful.

Given your extensive experience, I wonder if you'd mind me asking another question. You mentioned that my doctorate should help.  I have received conflicting advice on this; some say that in this economic climate, one needs to be very careful about jobs for which one might be considered "overqualified."  A couple of my mentors (mind you, who don't have formal professional experience as career counselors or academic advisors) have suggested that any job that doesn't require a doctorate will make me seem overqualified and that I should consider not putting it on my CV...!

Personally I think it's deceptive to not include that information, and will include it on all the CVs I send out.  But I wondered what you thought about strategizing around an EdD from a top Ivy making me appear "overqualified" for such positions...when in reality I actually feel a bit underqualified (given that I don't have formal training in career or academic counseling...).

Thanks so much for your help...

 

[crickter14]

guys,..
Our goal at Academic Advising at Henry Ford Community College is to assist you in selecting a career path. This service provides advice to students regarding the implementation of their educational goals.  Counselors advise students in the following areas:

    * Selection of courses related to an educational program/curriculum/degree
    * Selection of an appropriate schedule/times for classes
    * Time management or balance of number of courses with life styles
    * Study skills planning and development
thanks,..

[michigander]

Crickter14's post raises an issue of importance to someone like the OP.  At many community colleges and some four-year schools, the people who perform academic advising are called counselors and must be licensed as such.  Therefore, anyone applying for a job at such a school must either be licensed or eligible for licensure.  I'm working in an academic advising office at a school just down the road from HFCC where academic advisors are not counselors and therefore come from a variety of backgrounds.  However our programs are all designed to prepare students for specific careers, so we do end up doing a good deal of career advising, particularly when students either are not admitted to or wash out of highly competitive limited enrollment career oriented programs and must come up with a Plan B.  At liberal arts colleges and large state universities, academic advisors may do less career advising and refer students to the career center instead.  But down the interstate at the U of M, liberal arts advisors frequently need to work on a Plan B with students who didn't get into the business school.  It all depends upon the individual institution and where the job is within the institution, so it's important to research anyplace before applying.  Generally speaking, previous experience in career advising won't hinder one's employability in academic advising and may help.

[dale1]

I am terribly sorry about the delay.  Unfortunately my time has been even more pressed in the last few months.

I am not a fan of any deception, and I actually have colleagues with EdDs and other advanced (post-MS) degrees.  These are not considered significant roadblocks; I think you would need to be realistic on salary, etc., but it's not a dealbreaker for me.

The doctorate should not be a liability.  What I would do is focus on the strengths that the doctorate gives you - parity with faculty on their terminal degree, experience in research (parlay this into assessment/evaluation expertise if you can), and the ability to write, analyze arguments, and understand complex terms and apply theory.  Sounds like a good combination to me.  I also think presenting or working with NACADA regionally will work.  I'm in Region 5 and will be at the conference this year in Normal, IL.  If anyone's around, I'm willing to have a beer with you.

Thanks so much, dale1.  So helpful.

Given your extensive experience, I wonder if you'd mind me asking another question. You mentioned that my doctorate should help.  I have received conflicting advice on this; some say that in this economic climate, one needs to be very careful about jobs for which one might be considered "overqualified."  A couple of my mentors (mind you, who don't have formal professional experience as career counselors or academic advisors) have suggested that any job that doesn't require a doctorate will make me seem overqualified and that I should consider not putting it on my CV...!

Personally I think it's deceptive to not include that information, and will include it on all the CVs I send out.  But I wondered what you thought about strategizing around an EdD from a top Ivy making me appear "overqualified" for such positions...when in reality I actually feel a bit underqualified (given that I don't have formal training in career or academic counseling...).

Thanks so much for your help...