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[distressed_student]

kedves:
I think any kind of intervention would make her cry, with female hugs all around. Then the boyfriend would show up, she'd leave with him, come back at 4 am anyway, and the cycle would renew itself all over again. Part of the issue needs to be getting her out of grandmas house (perhaps) but then aren't we controlling her again? Dealing with her coming home at 3 am when we have to get up and go to work and grad school?
The more posts I read, and the more I think about it, I think I just need to let it all go, she'll do what she wants anyway and live with the good and bad.
But it sure is hard.

[bald_cypress]

For at least 3 years, my son would enroll in the mandatory 12 hrs at the CC so I could submit the form & get him health insurance. He would then drop one or two, sometimes three of the classes; I never snitched to my insurance co. because I wanted him insured. I paid enough for health insurance; I figured whether he was taking 12 hrs. or 6 hrs. shouldn't matter.

He only attended college because I insisted that he do so for the health insurance; he must have realized that medical bills were unaffordable for him. For years he had no interest in most of his classes. But one day the light bulb went on. I don't know if it was his realization that he was floating aimlessly through life, that he might not live forever (he had a couple friends die in motorcycle accidents during that time---their "club" would ride those crotch rockets at 100 mph for the hell of it). Whatever it was, he finally motivated himself, earned an AA at the CC, transferred to the State U & completed his BBA, and is now, a few years later, working on his masters. From high school graduation to BBA took him 10 years because of his slow beginning & necessity to work more hours later on.

Parenting is the toughest job in the world---especially when your kids are old enough to make their own decisions, and you have to watch them maybe self-destruct. I understand ethics & not lying; I'm pretty straight up like that too. But don't snitch on your step-daughter. Why do health insurers think college enrolled kids over 18 are entitled to health ins. but not employed 18 yr old kids? Because the employed kid can buy his/her own insurance? Hah!

Keep her insured, and follow the advice upthread to be honest. Tell her what you know & that it bothered you lying to the health company, tell her your concerns about her aimlessness, but then let her follow her own path. She will anyway. And compartmentalize your family concerns so you can focus on your own studies. Don't sabotage your own education.

[pikachu]

..........but I've never seen a kid slide so far in two-three years. Honor student and outgoing to heavy, depressed, insecure and very closed-off......

There has been obvioulsy a change here in terms of self-confidence, interests, and/or identity issues, not uncommon for adolescents and young adults (my guess is that it is more of an academic confidence issue). Perhaps someone who could be open, supportive, accesible, and objective could help her identify the issue and help her resolve it, ideally a counselor of some sort or a trusted adult.

[ideagirl]

Show that honesty is acceptable, and they will be less likely to hide from you. 

Speaking of which, am I the only one who finds it very weird that OP and his wife are pretending not to know the girl who's living at grandma's has dropped out of college? Why on earth...??!?!?! Why create an elephant in the room, instead of just acknowledging the truth?

[ideagirl]

It sounds like you think a traditional college experience would protect your stepdaughters against the perils of youthful bad judgment (unwanted pregnancy, unhappy relationships, lack of job prospects, substance abuse). You worry that by eschewing college, they leave themselves more vulnerable.

The problem is that college is no substitute for good judgment. Traditionally aged college students with bad judgment run into those exact perils quite easily. To use your own example, the face-painted cheering on football Saturday (and other such happy aspects of campus life) is all too often accompanied by dangerous levels of alcohol consumption and sexual promiscuity (often voluntary, sometimes not). If you can't trust your stepdaughters to live responsibly as young adults outside of college, then why should you expect them to do better in college? College students manage to hook up with loser boyfriends/girlfriends and sit around doing nothing just as easily as non-college students. At least the non-college students aren't paying tuition (and in some cases racking up big student loan debt) for the privilege.

That point is so on the money it ought to be framed.

[ideagirl]

My goodness, this is just getting worse and worse.  From not-facepainting-at-SLAC to uninsured chronic illness and attempted fraud in 3 pages!

My two cents: she's 21.  She has to learn sometime. Love her, but let her f*** up and learn her own lessons; I had to, and I didn't until my dad stopped bailing me out.  

Seriously. This is the part where you kill two birds with one stone: stop the lying about her being in school, and stop enabling her. No need to call the insurance company yet. But tell her that you (the OP) know she's not in school, and that because she's not in school, you're not going to be able to get insurance for her. If you submitted the paper she gave you, you would be committing insurance fraud, a felony.

Again, I'm not saying to snitch on her. I am saying that now that you know the truth, submitting that paper she gave you to your insurer would be insurance fraud, and possibly mail or wire fraud too (if you mail or fax it). There's a difference between submitting this form now, and telling the insurer that your kid is enrolled WHEN THEY ARE ENROLLED but later not updating the insurer when they drop a class or three. So she doesn't get to be insured this semester. She can be insured again when she enrolls again. One semester of reality might be just what she needs.

This shouldn't be said in an accusatory way--not a "you LIED to me you DISAPPOINTED me" type of vibe. It's just the unfortunate truth: you know she's not in school, and this means you can't get insurance for her because the only way to get insurance for her would be to commit a felony. That's the consequence of her not being in school. It might be a good thing for her to learn about consequences, especially if she can start learning it in such a relatively easy way (god knows there are dramatically worse ways to learn about consequences). Her options for getting insurance are either (1) be in school or (2) get a job with benefits. It would be helpful for her to know that and to perhaps start thinking about how the heck she's going to live.

[prytania3]

Ideagirl thinks getting health insurance for your semi-grown kids is "enabling," but most semi-grown kids don't understand the importance of health insurance until they are 30. They really just don't get it, so I get my son insurance so *I* can sleep at night.

I asked my psychiatrist about this enabling business, and he said, "Sometimes enabling is good. Sometimes as a parent, your job is just to keep them alive until they get some sense." Moreover, people think if you stop enabling someone, the person will automatically straighten up and fly right. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sure, sometimes they do, but sometimes it gets really ugly.

Anyway, you have to change your thinking. Some Ivy League education is no guarantee for anything. I went to an Ivy League school, and then I went off adventuring in Europe and the Middle East, and after that, I managed to make one bad mistake after the next. And no matter how trifling your stepdaughter’s boyfriend is, there is no way he could be as bad as my first husband. Really.

So she’s working at a burger joint, so she might become a baby mama—trust me, there are worse things in the world. My son dropped out of high school at 15, got in trouble with the police a bunch of times (but has a clean record because I spent tons on lawyers (whom I hate only slightly less than cops and judges), got his GED, and got 15 college credits so he could join the Marines. But when it came time for him to sign on the dotted line, he decided maybe he didn’t want to join the Marines, maybe getting blown up in Afghanistan was over rated.

But I’d be thrilled if he were working at a burger joint. I’d be thrilled if he had any job at all.

So chill. Better she screws up early. She has more time to make up for her mistakes, and the community college will be there when she’s a baby mama. I teach a lot of baby mamas and they tend to be very diligent students.

[distressed_student]

ideagirl:
we just haven't told her we know yet. We will: we just sort of found this out. That and her birthday's in two days (21st) and we would at least like it to be civil and non-accusatory.

[t_r_b]

ideagirl:
we just haven't told her we know yet. We will: we just sort of found this out. That and her birthday's in two days (21st) and we would at least like it to be civil and non-accusatory.

Then let her know that you know in a civil and non-accusatory way. Actually, do that regardless of when you tell her. The point isn't to tell her she has been bad. The point is to open lines of communication that are currently closed.

[thundering_m]

..........but I've never seen a kid slide so far in two-three years. Honor student and outgoing to heavy, depressed, insecure and very closed-off......

There has been obvioulsy a change here in terms of self-confidence, interests, and/or identity issues, not uncommon for adolescents and young adults (my guess is that it is more of an academic confidence issue). Perhaps someone who could be open, supportive, accesible, and objective could help her identify the issue and help her resolve it, ideally a counselor of some sort or a trusted adult.

I'd like to temper my previous comments to say that if drugs are involved there is little hope for a rational approach. Then it's a larger issue affecting her sister and simply more dangerous on so many levels. A drastic change in lifestyle and friends is a big clue.

[msparticularity]

..........but I've never seen a kid slide so far in two-three years. Honor student and outgoing to heavy, depressed, insecure and very closed-off......

There has been obvioulsy a change here in terms of self-confidence, interests, and/or identity issues, not uncommon for adolescents and young adults (my guess is that it is more of an academic confidence issue). Perhaps someone who could be open, supportive, accesible, and objective could help her identify the issue and help her resolve it, ideally a counselor of some sort or a trusted adult.

I'd like to temper my previous comments to say that if drugs are involved there is little hope for a rational approach. Then it's a larger issue affecting her sister and simply more dangerous on so many levels. A drastic change in lifestyle and friends is a big clue.

This also possibly speaks of depression. In fact, a lot of what you are describing sounds as much or more like steadily advancing depression as anything else. (And there is some thought that a fair amount of illegal drug use may be inappropriate self-medication for a variety of conditions including depression.)

Letting an adult child know--in a gentle and non-accusatory way--that we are concerned about them because of specific patterns that we are seeing is not, IMO, "enabling." It is what we would do for anyone we love.

[distressed_student]

again, some good posts and some good advice here. Thank you.

[spork]

It sounds like you think a traditional college experience would protect your stepdaughters against the perils of youthful bad judgment (unwanted pregnancy, unhappy relationships, lack of job prospects, substance abuse). You worry that by eschewing college, they leave themselves more vulnerable.

The problem is that college is no substitute for good judgment. Traditionally aged college students with bad judgment run into those exact perils quite easily. To use your own example, the face-painted cheering on football Saturday (and other such happy aspects of campus life) is all too often accompanied by dangerous levels of alcohol consumption and sexual promiscuity (often voluntary, sometimes not). If you can't trust your stepdaughters to live responsibly as young adults outside of college, then why should you expect them to do better in college? College students manage to hook up with loser boyfriends/girlfriends and sit around doing nothing just as easily as non-college students. At least the non-college students aren't paying tuition (and in some cases racking up big student loan debt) for the privilege.

That point is so on the money it ought to be framed.

There was a recent study that showed that young men who went to college died more frequently than young men who did not.  The author(s) thought that this might be caused by non-college-going males having to become responsible faster and thereby engaging in life-threatening behaviors less often.

[mdwlark]

What TRB and Pry said.  Read it over and over until you get it.

Thanks for all the posts.
Two things:
1) Perhaps the most painful thing about all this is the older stepdaughter who is staying at her birth father's mother (grandma) house. (The birth father has chosen, essentially, to not be a part of their lives, but his parents are).

Why is this so painful?  There are many young women who have a baby on the way and have no parental support from anywhere on either side of the family.  There are young single moms and pregnant women in a homeless shelter.  She is very lucky these wonderful, loving people have taken her in and are helping her.  They don't have to do that.  The fact is, she can't be a traditional student with facepaint.  She is a soon-to-be single parent and you can't go back and reinvent her as a virgin cheerleader dating the captain of the football team.  The 40's and 50's are over anyway.  By the way, the community colleges were invented for students like your stepdaughters.  A lot of us teach there because we know we are changing lives.  She is not ready yet, but if you get off her back, she will be--maybe when it is a little easier to leave a toddler in daycare. 

I have always thought the facepaint crowd were goons.  You want her to be academically inclined, but you want her to act like the C+/C- crowd.  There is a mixed message here.  I went to a few games, but I was too busy studying for this kind of nonsense, and it was never of any interest to me. 

Several of you posted that she should study abroad, or at least get out and live a little and find their way. I wholehearted ly agreed and suggested the backpacking/Europe/hostel thing, and told her I'd match funds she earned for such an endeavor.

No, she should figure out the next best step for her to support her child and lay some groundwork for the future on her terms.  Like a single mom with the major responsibility for a baby should bum around Europe.  Yeah, right.

I guess, and this is perhaps the hardest thing to say, and I'm always confused as a stepfather about how and when and why....how long do I hold out hope for her?

When are you going to start? 

I fear (a very real concern, mind you) that to let her "find her own way" (as many of you suggest) may create life-changing situations that can never be repaired. Her 21st birthday is in three days. Any ideas for that day (other than keep my mouth shut while she feeds her loser boyfriend cake and ice cream and "pretends" we don't know she's not in college?

You are doing a good job of pretending that you are not in college.  You are.  Why should you pretend you don't know she is not in college?  You seem to be already doing that.  She's not.  Stop pretending about both of you.  She is not flunking out of college.  You are.  She is succeeding at the hamburger stand. 

As TRB said, your step daughters have the luxury of time.  They can mess up for a few years, although I don't think flipping burgers for a while is that much of a mess-up, and they will still be young when they learn their lessons and decide to take a new direction.  They will still have their future ahead of them.  Most life changing events CAN be repaired when you are in your 20's.  Read what TRB said about the example you are setting. They are following your example to the letter.  Letting yourself--meaning you--flounder and eventually find your way could result in a failed academic career.  You do not have the luxury of time.  Why are you putting all your thoughts into their decisions, and you are not examining your own bad decisions, which could lead to an outcome for you that "can never be repaired?"   

[mystictechgal]

What TRB and Pry said.  Read it over and over until you get it.

Thanks for all the posts.
Two things:
1) Perhaps the most painful thing about all this is the older stepdaughter who is staying at her birth father's mother (grandma) house. (The birth father has chosen, essentially, to not be a part of their lives, but his parents are).

Why is this so painful?  There are many young women who have a baby on the way and have no parental support from anywhere on either side of the family.  There are young single moms and pregnant women in a homeless shelter.  She is very lucky these wonderful, loving people have taken her in and are helping her.  They don't have to do that.  The fact is, she can't be a traditional student with facepaint.  She is a soon-to-be single parent and you can't go back and reinvent her as a virgin cheerleader dating the captain of the football team.  The 40's and 50's are over anyway.  By the way, the community colleges were invented for students like your stepdaughters.  A lot of us teach there because we know we are changing lives.  She is not ready yet, but if you get off her back, she will be--maybe when it is a little easier to leave a toddler in daycare. 

Um, the stepdaughter isn't pregnant.  The birth father OP refers to is the stepdaughter's father, not the boyfriend.

OP, I can't say it any clearer than TRB and others have.  Stop letting her get away with her "secret" about her enrollment and get some honesty into this relationship.  Let her know that you'll love her no matter what, then let her make her own mistakes and quit bailing her out at every turn and trying to control her life.  She's an adult and has been one for three years; let her figure out what that means in her own time.  You need to quit focusing on your stepdaughter and start concentrating on your own degree.