next »

[zeegirl]

(I'm not entirely sure this is the right place to post this, but....)

I have a student who is contemplating graduate school in the arts. We've already talked about that ever-growing glut of students, the lack of jobs, etc., and he seems to understand the difficulties.  He's a painter, but has got it in his head that instead of an MFA, he will get an Art Ed MA, or PhD.  He wants to teach at the collegiate level, or perhaps the HS level.  I'm an Art Historian, and my colleagues (Studio people) and I are trying to figure out a couple of things in response to his questions--and since we've not been on the market recently, maybe someone else would have insight into his questions.  I figured someone out here could help us.

For those of you with experience in these areas (and those not), our questions are:

1) Is there any type of 'stigma' attached to a Art Ed degree as opposed to an MFA? (There was where I went to school, of the "You can't paint, so you can go into Art Ed" type.  Sad to say, but there you have it.)

2) Is it more difficult, in anyone's experience (from either side of the hiring table), to get a teaching job in a Studio Department at the collegiate or HS level with an Art Ed degree rather than an MFA? (We think it might be, but we're not certain.)

3) Are the answers to the above questions mostly dependent on a) from what school you get either degree  and b) to what school you apply?  (This is pretty much my theory, but not other instructors.)

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

Zee

[dellaroux]

There are several more specifically active folks in this topic who will, I imagine, show up later on; I'll wade in just to get the ball rolling...(hey guys, where are you?)

Whether there's a stigma or not about an Art Ed degree, to my mind, wouldn't be the most important issue for someone with a strong portfolio; if that's what they want, that's what they go for, and do their own painting/sculpting/installation/other work for showing as they wish/are able. The things I would have in mind are:

a) The MFA is a terminal studio degree, which is seen as adequate for getting studio teaching work in the university setting; as far as I know an Art Ed MA would be for teaching art in elementary school or high school.

b) Others may know better, but an Art Ed Ph.D. sounds off, to me. I'm not sure but what you'd end up getting an Ed.D. instead, which probably would not weigh in at the same level as a Ph.D. for university work.

c) Can't speak to this...in general, everything depends on where you come from and where you go, but as to the nomenclature and interpretation of the degrees, I believe there is some standardized terminology; try the CAA (College Art Ass'n) website:

    http://www.collegeart.org/guidelines/

Again, several others may have better and more specific ideas about this.

[spectacle]

I know that you said your student understands the difficulties, the glut, etc., but a lot of my friends are on the art job market, so I have a lot of recent stories about this particular topic.

As far as teaching painting at the college level is concerned, I have a friend who has 5+ years of teaching experience, an impressive exhibitions record and great letters of recommendation on top of an MFA from a top-5 school in painting. 

After a campus visit, a search committee chair said that they didn't hire him because he doesn't have gallery representation in Chelsea.  And this was for a job at a tiny SLAC in fly-over country.  That's what the art job market is like right now. 

From my friends in the field, I've gotten the impression that an art education graduate degree is for folks who want to teach primary or secondary art education, or who want to teach art education.  The jobs in studio painting/drawing/sculpture/printmaking go to the MFAs, but those jobs are INSANELY competitive always, and even worse right now.

I wouldn't say it's so much of a stigma - it's just a different field altogether. 

[msparticularity]

From my friends in the field, I've gotten the impression that an art education graduate degree is for folks who want to teach primary or secondary art education, or who want to teach art education.  

An art ed degree is, indeed, the degree for a K-12 art educator. In most states, the licensure is for K-12 inclusive, rather than elementary or secondary--like PE but unlike most other content areas. However, teaching art ed at the collegiate level these days is almost exclusively done by PhDs who are also studio artists.

And the employment prospects for someone with a K-12 licensure are pretty bad right now--nearly as bad as for MFAs. I have personally co-supervised (along with an art educator) several really, really excellent people during their internships over the past four years, and not one of them has found a full-time job in the field. Art positions are still being cut (unlike PE slots, which are experiencing a mild comeback), with no relief at all in sight.

[zeegirl]

Thanks for the responses.  I have spent some time with this student on the pros and cons (mostly cons) of any graduate degree--MA, MFA, Ph.D.,-- in the arts, at least right now.  We've had six new positions in the last 8 years in my Art/Art History department, and the 120 to 200 applications we got each time has lent weight to our conversations.  However, he's rather adamant about "going out to help young artists." Uh, OK.  But....so is everyone else. He's older than most of my students, coming back from the "real world" to take classes for 'fun', and I think he's just searching for any port in a storm, as it were.

Anyhow, I'm just trying to give him a balanced picture of the process, the market, and the astronomical possibilities of getting a TT job.  Or a K-12 job.  Or a job flipping burgers.

[der_gadfly]

1) Stigma? the MFAs will look down their noses, and rightfully so. There are so many fine artists vying for university teaching slots that one must have an exemplary gallery record, PLUS be able to show the work of previous students! (I can't myself figure this out....catch 22: can't teach because one has never taught before)

2) most states require a 'certification' to teach in any k-12 environment. Chances are that the MA in Art Ed will take one most of the way there, but it might require a few extra courses in education and certain undergraduate/graduate level liberal arts (math, science, geography etc)

3) I do not believe that it is dependent on where you get your degree.

Exceptions: many of the evil for-profit BFA/BS programs will consider an MA in Art Ed for a teaching slot in 'fine arts'. Of course, one must have a special thickness of skin and ability to work in that type of environment.