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[verysneaky]

Thought: instead of working on talking less, work on listening more. Don't do the thing where, when others are speaking, you are either formulating your own thoughts or wondering anxiously whether it's too early to speak up again (a trap into which I often fall). When you do speak up, show that you've been listening carefully to everyone else: make a conscious effort to refer to other students' points, show points of connection among them ("What Caitlin just said reminds me of Joe's points a few minutes ago..., and now I wonder..."), and facilitate a dialogue. Ask other students intelligent and generous follow-on questions about their own points. If you make sure that your own comments are genuine responses to other people in the class and develop their input in a sincere way, you are less likely to be "that student" and more likely to be an actual leader. That's my own theory of class participation, anyway.

[dellaroux]

Yes to this, of course. Both speaking and listening, together, make a balanced approach.

[sugaree]

Thought: instead of working on talking less, work on listening more. Don't do the thing where, when others are speaking, you are either formulating your own thoughts or wondering anxiously whether it's too early to speak up again (a trap into which I often fall). When you do speak up, show that you've been listening carefully to everyone else: make a conscious effort to refer to other students' points, show points of connection among them ("What Caitlin just said reminds me of Joe's points a few minutes ago..., and now I wonder..."), and facilitate a dialogue. Ask other students intelligent and generous follow-on questions about their own points. If you make sure that your own comments are genuine responses to other people in the class and develop their input in a sincere way, you are less likely to be "that student" and more likely to be an actual leader. That's my own theory of class participation, anyway.

This is a great point. There is a difference between between being "that student" (read: blowhard who loves to hear themselves speak and not everything they say is always worthwhile) and "this student" (read: sometimes gets overenthusiastic about interesting material and loves the setting in which it gets knocked around). Active listening will help this balance, I think.

[frogfactory]

3. *sports analogy alert* When I played basketball, the coach made us pass at least three times before anyone was allowed to shoot to discourage ball hogging. Try waiting for three or four other people to talk before you let yourself talk again. Part of why I talk a lot is because I cannot freaking stand those awkward silences. I find that if I leave them there for a while, though, someone else will jump in.

I like this one.  The idea of waiting for more than one person to contribute before opening my mouth is a good one.  I know it's the prof's class, but I'm not sure I think it's good that the class often turns into a two-way dialogue that is possibly beyond the grasp of some of the students (many of whom are from other departments with in subjects a little peripheral to the topic of the class).

A number of people mentioned jumping up to answer the prof's questions.  This is a graduate discussion class, so there aren't questions with correct answers.  Or, when there are, they are asked in the interest of finding out from someone who knows, not to test who's done the reading.  

Although it did take me a good while in undergrad tutor group sessions to learn not to answer every question so that (in my mind!) we could get on to the stuff that hadn't already been covered faster.

One of the reasons I posted this, and why I felt bad about the situation, was that I talked with one of the other, younger, students after class.  She told me that she felt she was barely keeping her head above water in the class, and that she felt she didn't know how to read the papers properly, and that she feels she hasn't read enough of the surrounding literature before taking the class.  She's a really bright student, major type-A personality, and a traditional grad students (BS to MS, young).  Part of the reason I have so much to say in the class, though, is that I first started university a decade ago, and have been studying and working in biology for most of the intervening time, and keeping up with the literature.  That is to say, the fact that I can call to mind an appropriate example/argument or counter example/argument to most of the points brought up in class and she can't is not a function of her being sub-par in terms of knowledge or reading or my towering intellect (well, maybe ;) ), but rather a function of the fact that I've simply been plugging away at the subject matter for three times as long as she has.

I don't think I can reassure her by telling her the above without sounding incredibly patronising and arrogant (and probably my post comes over that way), and it occurs to me that she might not be the only person to feel that way in the class.  

I do understand what you're saying, dellaroux, and generally I'd consider this to be the prof's 'problem'.  But this kid is a friend and a colleague, and I could see that she was upset and panicking a little about the class, and I feel a little responsible for that.

Yeah, I guess I am doing the girly touchy-feely thing ;p

[dellaroux]

In that case, a simple off-hand, "well, yeah, but then, not to worry--I've been slogging through this stuff for a while, now!" can put the other person at ease without sounding patronizing, and maybe an offer to study together--or just go out after class to do a post-mortem over coffee--sometime, if that can be done without becoming a dependency situation?

Your concern for your friend is well-placed, and in that more personal context your sense of things makes it clear that your humanity hasn't gotten lost in the shuffle!

Balancing voice and presence and connections is hard, sometimes.

[larryc]

So shut up already.

At first, the silence will be deafening, as the professor asks a question and everyone looks at you thinking "Here goes ol' motormouth again. I wonder who is on Dancing With the Stars tonight . . . " The professor will be looking at you as well for you have also trained her that yours is the first and loudest voice in the room. And you will have a point to make, oh yes you will, welling up inside and bursting to get out. The room is in darkness and you are the bringer of light! You must hold forth.

Just shut up.

Classroom silence is not a bad thing. Silence gives people a chance to think. Silence makes people uncomfortable. Tension builds. Eventually someone will speak. Don't let it be you. After that person makes her point, the class will again look to you to reinforce or rebut it. Shouldn't you speak now? She misinterpreted chapter 3, and you have such a clever connection ot offer to something you read in another class!

Shut up.

Say nothing.

The other students will eventually take up the slack. Some of them have been doing the reading and are in fact smarter than you. You will learn more from hearing them than you ever did listening to your own dulcet tones. Others were slackers, hiding their ignorance behind your voluble cover. Remove their cover and watch them scurry to the readings. In a week or two they will be coming to class better prepared.

So shut up already. You can do it.

[larryc]

P.S.: I have so been you.

[history_grrrl]

This thread cries out for a poll, but alas, I don't know how to make one and don't want to learn. So:

Can we see a gender breakdown for:

1. grad students who never shut up in class
2. grad students who participate actively in class and think they should be quieter so others can have a chance to jump in.

I think we already know the answer.

[mdwlark]

Students like you later turn out to be....professors! 

To tell you the truth, as an instructor, I like talkative students.  They give me material to feed off.  Last semester I had a motor mouth student who was waaaaay over the top, but he also was very funny, so I didn't silence him.  Privately after class I asked him to leave space for some of the quieter students but told him I enjoyed his remarks. 

[mystictechgal]

I wouldn't worry about it unless your professor takes your response as a way to address *that* issue in a follow-up response.  If they do follow up like that then you'll know the initial e-mail was meant to gently draw attention to what you're thinking of as overshare.  Otherwise, I think you're probably fine.

I've been *that* student on occassion.  Like you, I'm generally aware that it's happening and I'll shut myself down to see what happens.  I'll promise myself that I will not say anything at all unless someone else says something first, or the professor specifically asks me for input.  Oftentimes, it's been the latter that's happened, when the sound of crickets becomes overwhelming.  I even had one professor pull me aside to tell me that, while s/he appreciated what I was doing, s/he wanted me to please keep contributing at my previous level because, otherwise, nothing of substance was getting discussed. 

If your professor e-mailed you to tell you they appreciate your contributions they may really mean it.  What you said in response should be fine, but think "thank you" at the same time.

[frogfactory]

This thread cries out for a poll, but alas, I don't know how to make one and don't want to learn. So:

Can we see a gender breakdown for:

1. grad students who never shut up in class
2. grad students who participate actively in class and think they should be quieter so others can have a chance to jump in.

I think we already know the answer.

Added, just for you, and in the name of science.

[mystictechgal]

As I'm not a grad student, I won't officially vote so I don't muddy your results.  I'd fit into category #2.  My gender should be obvious from my moniker.

[dellaroux]

I'm with MTGal, I won't vote so I don't skew your data, but I'd put myself as a female who has had a variety of situations in which to consider this issue...

I've at times tried to allow space and time for others, but at other times have worked to make myself visible in a large group where the competition for grad students was pretty important.

It paid off at one point, later, too; when the department chair had to take me seriously about something else...he had been in those classes and knew I knew what I was talking about.)

But then, my children's minister pulled me aside at age 8 and asked me to be sure not to put my hand up all the time in Bible Study so the other kids would have a turn, too.

Trouble was, they didn't often take advantage of the option, and I just ended up feeling badly. (Hence my long-standing issue with this issue!)

[tinyboss]

Do people here think it makes a difference whether it's a class based on interpretation and discussion, or a more technical class where most questions have objectively right and wrong answers?  In my field the classes are of the latter type, and I usually speak up to move the class along when it seems that nobody else is willing or able to give the answer.  

We have another "that guy" in one of my classes, though, who seems to make it his personal mission to answer every little question before anyone else can utter a syllable, often before the prof even finishes asking.  This is the prof who actively tries to get input from everyone, and he frequently tells "that guy" to shush or to hold his question.  The funny thing is this guy usually can't manage to restrain himself for more than three seconds (literally) before going on with his question anyway.  He's not even (close to) the smartest in the class.  I suspect that the prof talks to him about it outside of class, because every couple of weeks he starts behaving for a day or two.  The other students snicker whenever he begins to speak.  Definitely don't be that guy!

[larryc]

Students like you later turn out to be....professors! 

But not good professors, unless they learn to let others speak.