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[zookers]

What's the low-down on this institution?  They're hiring a slew of new faculty.  It's relatively new and decidedly different than your average bear.  According to their website, they strive to be like "many" SLACs in the US by e.g. offering a "block" program (students take one class at a time for 3 weeks).   Not that many schools offer a block program, to my knowledge.  They also do not offer tenure, only annual contracts, yet insist they promote academic freedom.  They also dissuade applicants interested in "traditional research".

There was an earlier thread in the Chronicle Articles forum about Quest (http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,49767.0.html), but it turned into a flame war between a couple individuals.

Any insight would be appreciated, particularly from the Canadians.

[prof_tournesol]

Most of what I know I learned from this article last year:

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/13/noble-quest/

[mignon]

It's legit, and in a gorgeous area.  But if you are not Canadian, you'll have an uphill battle in the hiring process, unless you're in a field (which field would this be? beats me) that is undersupplied in Canada.

[lurkingfear]

Being Canadian has little if anything to do with it, particularly at a private institution. Public institutions are required to cite a preference for Canadians, but in the end they usually find a way to get who they want.

As for Quest, I considered applying there, but decided against it given their precarious financial situation, no union, and lack of a tenure system. They aren't filling their enrollment capacity, and I can see why. Would you, as a parent, pay 3-4 times what it costs to go to the best Canadian Unviersity to send your student to a new and unknown college (with a name like Quest...I mean...come on..is this a college or a wilderness camp for troubled teens).

[mignon]

Lurking, ALL schools, and indeed all employers, are supposed to exhaust Canadian options before hiring from abroad.

[american_in_ab]

It's legit, and in a gorgeous area.  But if you are not Canadian, you'll have an uphill battle in the hiring process, unless you're in a field (which field would this be? beats me) that is undersupplied in Canada.

We've covered this ground before, and it's simply not true.

Several years ago the university hiring regulations were relaxed to allow simultaneous advertising to and interviewing of non-Canadian applicants.  In practice, this means one can always recruit an international candidate, because it's relatively easy after the fact to justify why that person is uniquely qualified.

I have been on several hiring committees at my university; the Canadian preference rules have frankly imposed little to no constraint on our recruitment.  There certainly is room for differences in how institutions and committees approach the issue of international hires, but there's little justification for telling people "fat chance to foreigners" at most schools.

(For what it's worth, Canadian universities hired plenty of Americans even before this decade's change in hiring rules.)

[cranefly]

It's legit, and in a gorgeous area.  But if you are not Canadian, you'll have an uphill battle in the hiring process, unless you're in a field (which field would this be? beats me) that is undersupplied in Canada.

We've covered this ground before, and it's simply not true.

Several years ago the university hiring regulations were relaxed to allow simultaneous advertising to and interviewing of non-Canadian applicants.  In practice, this means one can always recruit an international candidate, because it's relatively easy after the fact to justify why that person is uniquely qualified.

I have been on several hiring committees at my university; the Canadian preference rules have frankly imposed little to no constraint on our recruitment.  There certainly is room for differences in how institutions and committees approach the issue of international hires, but there's little justification for telling people "fat chance to foreigners" at most schools.

(For what it's worth, Canadian universities hired plenty of Americans even before this decade's change in hiring rules.)

Exactly. Mignon, you're not even required any more to have the preference for Canadians bit in the job ad. In my experience (at a Canadian University), there is not even a thought to hiring Canadians over Americans--the best person is hired for the job, regardless of nationality.

[janedoh]

It's legit, and in a gorgeous area.  But if you are not Canadian, you'll have an uphill battle in the hiring process, unless you're in a field (which field would this be? beats me) that is undersupplied in Canada.

We've covered this ground before, and it's simply not true.

Several years ago the university hiring regulations were relaxed to allow simultaneous advertising to and interviewing of non-Canadian applicants.  In practice, this means one can always recruit an international candidate, because it's relatively easy after the fact to justify why that person is uniquely qualified.

I have been on several hiring committees at my university; the Canadian preference rules have frankly imposed little to no constraint on our recruitment.  There certainly is room for differences in how institutions and committees approach the issue of international hires, but there's little justification for telling people "fat chance to foreigners" at most schools.

(For what it's worth, Canadian universities hired plenty of Americans even before this decade's change in hiring rules.)

Exactly. Mignon, you're not even required any more to have the preference for Canadians bit in the job ad. In my experience (at a Canadian University), there is not even a thought to hiring Canadians over Americans--the best person is hired for the job, regardless of nationality.

Agreed. My University does include the preference for Canadians text in ads, but I am American and was hired in 2008 with no issues. For all 6 of the searches I've seen (in 2 depts) since my hire less than 1/5 of the candidates brought on campus have been Canadians and only 1 of the hires has been. I have heard that some places take the Canadian preference thing more seriously than others, but none of the big research Universities do.

So if you are interested in a Canadian University, go ahead and apply.

[whimsical]

At my university, in one hire, we short-listed an American for a position and after the interview, made them an offer. We didn't give a second choice on our list (who would have been Canadian). Because the American declined the offer, we were not allowed to offer the job to our second choice. We were told that if the first choice had been Canadian, we would have been able to offer the job to the second choice if the first choice had declined.

We were told the policy was that if there were no Canadians chosen, the American could be offered the job.

In this case, this became a failed search, even though we thought the second choice would be fine. We had to repost the job a year later.

[lurkingfear]

At my university, in one hire, we short-listed an American for a position and after the interview, made them an offer. We didn't give a second choice on our list (who would have been Canadian). Because the American declined the offer, we were not allowed to offer the job to our second choice. We were told that if the first choice had been Canadian, we would have been able to offer the job to the second choice if the first choice had declined.

We were told the policy was that if there were no Canadians chosen, the American could be offered the job.

In this case, this became a failed search, even though we thought the second choice would be fine. We had to repost the job a year later.

This is the only complication of the Canadian requirement that I've heard of, though I'm not sure if it is a hard and fast rule or if it varies by institution/region. I've heard the unionized schools like York have more complicated rules in this regard. In my experience, whomever is most qualified gets offered the job, though I could see this becoming an issue if the SC thought that if the top candidate was an American and was not serious about the job. If this were the case, they may hedge their bets and offer it to the second choice if he/she was Canadian.
In any event, Quest is private and not governed by these rules...apply away! (with the knowledge that the school takes anyone and everyone that applies, and may be belly-up in a year).

[whimsical]

I am at a unionized school, and there is nothing in the contract about citizenship or residency of hires. In our case this was an administrative rule that we had to prove that an American was more qualified than a Canadian. By nominating an American as first choice we were saying they were more qualified than the Canadians on the short list. When the American declined the offer, it meant that we couldn't offer it to the Canadian second on our list as if we were comfortable with the Canadian as a hire, why didn't we make them the first choice? That was the response the admin gave to us in that situation.

This kind of bizarre logic makes us extremely reluctant to nominate an American for any jobs, because if they decline our offer, we are left with a failed search as hires here happen only in one hiring cycle.

[janewales]

I am at a unionized school, and there is nothing in the contract about citizenship or residency of hires. In our case this was an administrative rule that we had to prove that an American was more qualified than a Canadian. By nominating an American as first choice we were saying they were more qualified than the Canadians on the short list. When the American declined the offer, it meant that we couldn't offer it to the Canadian second on our list as if we were comfortable with the Canadian as a hire, why didn't we make them the first choice? That was the response the admin gave to us in that situation.

This kind of bizarre logic makes us extremely reluctant to nominate an American for any jobs, because if they decline our offer, we are left with a failed search as hires here happen only in one hiring cycle.

My school isn't unionized, but our legal department has exactly the same view. It derives from the fact that when a hire is contemplated, there are federal government forms that have to be filled in, explaining why the top Canadian applicants were not qualified. The dancing around that most Canadian institutions do indeed indulge in, comes from the "qualified" part-- there are many ways to spin that, of course. But the forms do exist, so unless someone is willing to fib a bit, the safest thing, from a legal point of view, is to have an all-Canadian shortlist or a no-Canadian shortlist...

But Quest is a different kettle of fish. The issue there is, do you want to work at a start-up which functions outside the usual practices (tenure, say) of a university system?

[charlie00]

It's legit, and in a gorgeous area.  But if you are not Canadian, you'll have an uphill battle in the hiring process, unless you're in a field (which field would this be? beats me) that is undersupplied in Canada.

I'm tired of reading the same thing about Canadian institutions: that you don't have chance against domestic candidates. Well, I have seen about a dozen hirings in the last 4 yours and 80 per cent are American professors. Enough urban legends.

[temporaryname]

I'm tired of reading the same thing about Canadian institutions: that you don't have chance against domestic candidates. Well, I have seen about a dozen hirings in the last 4 yours and 80 per cent are American professors. Enough urban legends.

Isn't what's been claimed on this thread is that the truth of the legend varies by institution, not that the legend is always true?

[zookers]

To all who have responded to this post: thanks for your input.  I'm Canadian, so the "Canucks only" clause works for me either way.

That being said, I gather the Canadian opinion on QU is that it's too much of an unknown, unestablished commodity on which one can reliably place their chips.  The lack of tenure is a turn-off, and if their reputation is not in the favor of other institutions, I suspect it would be difficult to go elsewhere should they shut their doors in a few years.