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[germanphd01]

Hello together,
I am a German PhD and mother of an eight year old daughter.
As a scientist I can only warn you to come here to Germany with childeren.
You are not protected against arbitrariness of the German "Jugendamt".
After a denunciation the German "Jugendamt" took my daughter away from me and put her into a "children's home".
They do not need a reason for that. A denunciation by a third party is enough, even when it is not true.
The German "Jugendamt" is so powerful that it cannot be controled by the German government.
Doctors gave evidence that I cared good for my child and that it was in good health when they took it away. 
My child is in very bad conditions now and cries for Mum everyday, but they do not let me visit her.
I found out that I am not the only mother, who is academic and threated by that.
The German "Jugendamt" says that specially foreign families are a "risk group" for childeren.
The Polish representatives of the Eurpean Parliament try to abolish/remove the German "Jugendamt" since several years, because they say it is a follower organization of Hitler's Nazi "Lebensborn" group. In Germany 40.000 childeren are taken into children's homes every year, more than in every other country. In average they stay in the childen's home for seven years until they are grown up. After that most of them are left as criminals or drug abusers. In Germany an industry has developed from that. The German government pays a head money of 5.000,00 EUR per month for every child the "Jugendamt" takes into a children's home.
Now my child has been caught in their network and we find no way out.
I want to warn you that it can happen to everyone, who comes to Germany with children.
Kidnappers are more human, because you can free your child by ransom.
Please, excuse my English, it is not my mother tongue.
GermanPhD

[normative_]

Germanphd01,

I'm sorry this has happened to you. I can't make an assessment of their fairness in this case, but I have followed up your lead and found, for the other readers, a European Parliament petition from Polish members of the European Parliament in December 2008 regarding the German child welfare services.

here

Apparently, a large number of complaints have been lodged that the German authorities deny visitation rights if they observe the child speaking a foreign language with the (usually foreign) parent, and apparently they're supervising and checking. The report mentions Polish and French in particular. This is specifically for the non-custodial parent, where custody has been granted to a German national (and speaker). So it is the issue of a second language, not a question of anything else.

The other complaints are about fairness in general, but I can understand, and agree with the sense of outrage about the denial of visitation rights. Assuming that is happening, which it appears to be. Under those circumstances of institutionalised discrimination against foreign parents, it's natural to question whether it applies to other decisions. The language you're speaking, the country you come from isn't material to whether you're a good parent.

[cranefly]

There was an article very recently (last week?) in the Globe and Mail (Canada) about Germany's attitude towards mothers in general. Essentially, it stated that Germany is the one remaining place in Europe where it is expected that if you have a child you will give up your job (as a woman, only: not for men).
Perhaps there was some of this attitude towards you in that you were studying for a PhD?


Are you still a citizen of your home country? Is your child? If so, you could petition your home country to get your child back for you and return home. Go to the newspapers in your home country and tell your story in a calm way as possible with lots of facts to back it up.

Good luck to you.

[germanphd01]

normative and cranefly,
I thank you for the good wishes.
In Germany the press has a "political correctness" not to publish when the Jugendamt makes a mistake.
The press informed me about that.
All I can do is the long way over judicial proceedings.
That can take years, because the family courts are overburdened with such cases.
The Jugendamt charges 40.000 children every year. That is world record.
No other country takes so many children away from their parents.
The law says, they are not allowed to charge the children "preventative", but the Jugendamt does not care about that. Since the 1990ies the Jugendamt is not controlled by any superior department and can decide for its own. That is the case only in Germany.
The European Parliament has called the German government to change the law and subordinate the Jugendamt under a department again, but they refuse to do so. The Jugendamt's lobby is very strong.
The Jugendamt gets a head money of 5.000 Euros per month for every child they take into charge.
A normal family in Germany earns a gross of approx. 2.500 Euros, what is a net of 1.500 Euros after taxes and insurances.
As long as the state pays the Jugendamt they are in advantage.
Maybe the expenses are cut now in the economic crisis and children come back home.
GermanPhD

[normative_]

There was an article very recently (last week?) in the Globe and Mail (Canada) about Germany's attitude towards mothers in general. Essentially, it stated that Germany is the one remaining place in Europe where it is expected that if you have a child you will give up your job (as a woman, only: not for men).
Perhaps there was some of this attitude towards you in that you were studying for a PhD?

The social pressure on mothers to assume a traditional role in the kitchen is enormous in Germany, but notably weaker in a university environment. There, paradoxically, there is room to balance work and life. Up to a certain point. Tenure and TT appointments lag behind those of men, but that's not particular to Germany. This case has to do more with the conviction that non-German influences on children living in Germany are a threat to their well-being, or the well-being or German society, or more likely both. That conviction is apparently strong enough to induce the child services offices to separate child and parent without any other welfare-oriented reason.

Go to the newspapers in your home country and tell your story in a calm way as possible with lots of facts to back it up.

You might try the Tageszeitung. They are more likely to print critical pieces. However, I'd suggest a different route:

You might also look around for possibilities to launch or support legal action directed to the European Court of Human Rights in Luxembourg, which has jurisdiction in this matter, and which is a natural place to complain if one of the signatory states refuses to respect or implement the European Convention on Human Rights. The European Parliament's report mentioned that they are looking at this. You might want to as well.

It may take some time to get satisfaction, but it's important that a court be involved. They can issue cease and desist orders to state authorities and hold them accountable for their actions in a way that the press and individuals can't. Given the obstinacy of the German authorities, it is important that the Court make it clear they are in violation of the Convention, (of law that they are obligated to respect and apply), and must change German practices to ensure compliance.

Germanphd, going to the press and going to the courts will probably work best together, if you can manage it. Look for support for launching legal proceedings. Maybe the Tageszeitung can help you find the right folks. If it works, they will have a critical story they can follow.


 

[cass2009]

First of all, I am sorry that this has happened to you. Being separated from your daughter must be terrible.
Unfortunately, you don't mention why your daughter was taken away.

Separating a child from her parent seems like very drastic action to take if the only evidence is something someone accused the parent of. From my (albeit very limited) experience of German child protection officers getting involved with families, they tend make the family aware that someone has contacted them concerning the welfare of the child, then they investigate the matter (e.g. talk to the child's doctor and teachers) and subsequently discuss their findings with the parents.

This does not mean that if a child is taken away, the parents are automatically guilty of neglecting or abusing their child. There are likely to be cases where mistakes are made and these are tragic no doubt.

I assume that you already have talked to a legal expert about the case. If not, I would advise you to do that. You don't mention whether you are German or not, but if you are not, then it may be worth getting your embassy involved.

Also, if you are not German, it may be worth considering if you are bringing up your child in a way that is typical for your home country, but not necessarily for Germany. I am mentioning this, because cross-cultural differences in child rearing may not be noticed as such by officials not aware of them (e.g. it may be acceptable in a culture to leave children on their own at a certain ages for longer periods of time, while this may be perceived as neglect in another culture). If you think cross-cultural differences are at the root of all of this, I would try to get in touch with an expert who specialises in this area.

Finally, it is understandable that you are hurting and are very upset. However, comparing current institutions to ones in place during the Nazi regime is not a good idea. It may be difficult to be rational at the moment, but it is in your best interest to not make comparisons like this, as they will do you more harm then good. 

[normative_]

Finally, it is understandable that you are hurting and are very upset. However, comparing current institutions to ones in place during the Nazi regime is not a good idea. It may be difficult to be rational at the moment, but it is in your best interest to not make comparisons like this, as they will do you more harm then good.  

I'll make an exception in this case to the 'fight your own fight' rule.

Cass2009, do you have children? Can you even imagine what it would be like to have them?

If someone had forcibly taken away my child for no good reason, I would go ballistic. If I'd then found out it wasn't an isolated incident, a mistake, but a deliberate, institutionalised practice that targets me and people like me, then I wouldn't sit on my hands and wonder whether I was being fair by calling them Nazis or racists with a master plan to eradicate my kind (and note, the OP did not use this word). I would call them what they are: a racist state organisation determined to Germanify children living on German soil. I would not give a flying crap about being neutral. I would attack it with every fibre of my being. And I would tell people to f*ck off of they told me I was over the top. Being neutral is the judge's job. It's not the job of the parent. If we can take everything at face value, then the OP is restraining herself pretty well.

Now that I've said that, I can understand you want to know the facts before reaching a decision. Your post makes that clear. We can't ever know that on this forum--the merits of Germanphd's case. But we can observe that there is a disturbing pattern that independent experts at the ECHR have started to gather evidence on, that the German state is systematically violating the human rights of immigrants in this fashion.

There are a lot of people who travel to Germany for temporary stays in academia. They have private lives, and they not infrequently have children. The pattern, which has now been backed up, is horrifying and has to stop, regardless of Germanphd's individual case. I think we can let the Lebensborn comment pass without going after her on it.

The more important question is...now that we know what the German state is doing to some children of foreigners working there, would you still risk taking up a job there?


 

[germanphd01]

Hello,

Yesterday Germany had its latest prominent victim of the Jugendamt.
The German goal keeper Ralf Enke (soccer) committed suicide.
He was in fear that the Jugendamt would take his baby away.
It was the family's second child. The first one died from a heart problem, when it was only two years old.
The German Jugendamt can take every child away.
They do not need a reason.
Every year about 40,000 children in Germany are taken in custody by the Jugendamt.

German PhD

[alleyoxenfree]

You might try getting in touch with English-language press such as the International Herald Tribune.

You should also try to find another parent who is American, whose child has been taken away.  Then you could get the interest of American shows such as "60 Minutes" or "Dateline," or of reporters for major U.S. papers who have correspondents in Europe.  Christiane Amanpour is based in London and is a mother; she regularly does these kinds of cross-cultural stories.  But to get producers interested, it would be helpful to have an American whose child had been taken away.  Connect that to the soccer star, and to your story, and that's a big story.

Thus, if there isn't a parent's support group for this situation, I suggest you start one.  Connect to other parents, and when you can find parents from English-language countries - England would work too - you might be able to find press that is non-German and thus interested in the story.

American press has done similar stories about custody issues involving Germany.  There have been some very high profile cases of them helping a German parent keep a child with dual citizenship from their American parent, not even allowing contact or visitation.  That's what makes me think that if you could find and join up with some American or English parents in a similar situation, you could get some press attention to the issue.  Good luck.

[alleyoxenfree]

 http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/06/01/world/main201844.shtml

(CBS)  Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Thursday Germany would set up a working group with the United States to look into child custody disputes involving American parents, but warned he could not interfere in court rulings.

German courts have consistently ignored a treaty which requires that custody questions be decided in the country where a child lived, reports CBS News Correspondent Bill Plante.

German courts have made it clear they believe that no matter what a treaty may say, any child is better off in Germany. There are no consequences for not complying with the treaty -- and at least until now, the U.S. government has been more interested in close relations than in separated families.

But the pressure of more than 50 outstanding U.S.-German custody cases brought the issue to the summit, and Schroeder announced that a panel of experts would look into the problem.

"We are both agreed that help is very much needed in this field," Schroeder told a joint news conference in Berlin with President Clinton, who arrived earlier Thursday.

But Schroeder stressed that despite the "tragic" circumstances of many custody disputes, he could not interfere in the independence of the German courts.

Schroeder was responding to criticism -- raised by the president during their talks Thursday -- from U.S. child custody campaigners who accuse German courts of favoring German parents and of flouting international treaties.

According to State Department figures, Germany is one of the worst offenders in enabling U.S. parents to get access to a child taken to live there against the wishes of one parent.

<snip>

In an interview released earlier Thursday, Schroeder defended German courts' handling of child custody disputes.

"We have always fought for the well-being of children to be at the core of divorce and custody cases. That is the only standard," Schroeder told the Berliner Zeitung daily in an interview to be published Friday.

[inthelab]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/06/01/world/main201844.shtml

(CBS)  Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said Thursday Germany would set up a working group with the United States to look into child custody disputes involving American parents, but warned he could not interfere in court rulings.

Isn't this story from 2000?  The current chancellor is Angela Merkel, no?

[dellaroux]

This is 9 years ago, just to be clear (I did a volte-face seeing the name of the Chancellor, expecting it to be Merkel).

That said, I'm very concerned.

If you are not German, can you contact the embassy for your native country and report this?

I would think they would wish to know about it and investigate as well.

I would have all the paperwork in order before you go to see them, anything you've been given or sent as well as yours and your daughter's documentation. (In fact, did they take here and leave you with her passport? That might have certain ramifications both for your own travel needs and for her status, if you're the one holding her papers.)

All good thoughts..

[alleyoxenfree]

Yes, the point is that when you want some coverage, seek out publications and reporters who have familiarity with the issue.  This has been a problem in Germany for some time, and you can see that different aspects of it have been covered, but not the specific one the OP is raising - that children visiting the country with a parent might be seized by authorities and that working women in Germany might face a more difficult time keeping their children.

Amanpour has reported on Germany custody problems for 60 Minutes, but I can't find the archive right now.

This is one English-language online community I found for Germany.  Perhaps posting there will help you contact Americans or Brits in a similar position and lead to coverage of the problem.  http://www.toytowngermany.com/

Also, seek out websites and magazines that cover issues for working women.   There is a women's enews and a women's news network.

[dellaroux]

I'm also thinking UNICEF (UN Children's Fund) might be useful.

UNICEF:

   http://www.unicef.de/

[ferriswheel]

Yesterday Germany had its latest prominent victim of the Jugendamt.
The German goal keeper Ralf Enke (soccer) committed suicide.
He was in fear that the Jugendamt would take his baby away.

I can't comment on the broader issues discussed here and I certainly don't want to minimize any potential problems with various Jugendämter. However, the above is a bit misleading. Enke committed suicide because he had been suffering from depression. He hadn't sought help for his condition because he feared the Jugendamt would remove his (recently adopted) child from the care of a parent who suffered from a mental illness. For what it's worth, those fears appear to have been unfounded.