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[kedves]

I have the "what to call me" talk on the first day of class--for all my classes, not only for freshmen.  It's part of the "norms of the classroom" talk.  I talk about how you can always start off too formal for a situation and become less formal, but it is hard to go the other way--and half the class nods emphatically but some students always look surprised.  I have found that things go better when I don't assume all my students know something that most of them do--it's clearer and kinder to talk about expectations openly before there is an issue than to correct someone after.

If you have a strong preference but are not discussing it on the first day, then you need to start doing this.  There is too much variety among us for students to know what to do unless we tell them directly.  I tell my students all the allowed possibilities of ways to address me, including by first name, and leave it up to them.   It's reasonable to ask students to conform to your wishes but not to assume that they intend disrespect when they do not. "Mrs.," "Ms.," and "Miss" are meant to be respectful by my students, and even "Hey, Kedves" is intended to be friendly.

[magistra]

I just don't believe they don't know that "Mrs." means you're married.  Like they've never heard the term "Ms."?  And as was pointed out upthread, often these same students are perfectly comfortable calling male professors (and others) "Dr." or "Professor".  That's what really hits the buttons, especially when they're told and still don't get it.

[larryc]

I am sad that "Ms." never became part of our general vocabulary. It really was a useful term. But you hardly hear it outside of a faculty lounge.

[toothpaste]

I am not 100% that they really understand the subtleties of Ms. I remember very distinctly a moment from the late 1990s when I stood in a store and pointed out to my then-fiance how silly it was that the mailing list card on the check-out counter listed only Mrs. and Ms. as title options, omitting Miss entirely, and declaring that the writer of the card obviously didn't understand that the point of Ms. was to eliminate the signal about whether the bearer of the title was married or not. The kid at the register demanded to look at it too, because, as he admitted, he didn't know that either.

[medieval_spectacle]

Medieval_spectacle I think you are conflating what you knew when you were that age with what most of your contemporaries knew.

Actually, I'm working from my actual memories of what both I and my contemporaries knew. Maybe I grew up someplace strange--a very rural county in Virginia--but everyone my age knew the difference between calling a woman "Miss" and calling a woman "Mrs." (we were just starting to use "Ms.," but it was still a bit of a novel feminist concept even then). We knew that if one of our teachers in elementary school or high school introduced herself as Miss, or if we were introduced at church to someone as "Miss," then it meant she wasn't married (and depending how old she was, possibly opened her up to slight pity as a spinster-type). I wouldn't quite go so far as to say that "Mrs." was exactly a "coveted" title, but we all knew that it came with a different status than "Miss." Sometimes in high school, if a student was trying to be smart with a married female teacher, they'd switch to "Miss" instead of "Mrs." just to tick her off. I guess it could be different in other places, but I really just have a hard time believing that so many students are unaware of what "Mrs." is meant to mark. Did I really grow up in such a strange place?

[llanfair]

I just don't believe they don't know that "Mrs." means you're married.  Like they've never heard the term "Ms."?  And as was pointed out upthread, often these same students are perfectly comfortable calling male professors (and others) "Dr." or "Professor".  That's what really hits the buttons, especially when they're told and still don't get it.

Chime on this one.  Why should men be assumed to have a doctorate/be a professor and women not?

[larryc]

It is a really good point about the underlying sexism behind a lot of this confusion. It is another thing we have to educate them about.

[present_mirth]

I get the impression that many students are genuinely unaware that "Mrs." is a title for married women only -- I've occasionally tried correcting them and making a joke about how it alarms me to be married off without my knowledge or consent, but a lot of them look blank if I do that.  Most of the time I just grit my teeth and say nothing, because honestly, I'm not sure how to insist that I'm not "Mrs. Mirth" without coming across as overly touchy or pompous.

Since I'm in the deep South, I also get the title-and-first-name combo from some students:  "Miss Present" or "Dr. Present."  I don't mind that as much, although I can't help wondering if they do it to my older male colleagues.

[msparticularity]

I am sad that "Ms." never became part of our general vocabulary. It really was a useful term. But you hardly hear it outside of a faculty lounge.

Wow--it was the all-purpose mode of address to women in the South in my childhood!

[molli_sols]

This isn't the most feminist thing to do but with the Freshpeeps I introduce myself on the first day with a reminder of how I like to be addressed.  I tell them that my name is Dr. Molli_sols Scout and they may call me Dr. Scout.  Then I tell them that I prefer Dr. Scout.  To help make it stick I tell them that if they call me Mrs. or Ms. I'll assume they are inviting me to a party, because my social name is Mrs. Fjord.  They all look at me confused...but they never invite me to any parties.

[chemxtree]

. Also, please remember that these children are the product of 12 years of rigorous training to call that person in the front of the room "Mrs." (And shockingly enough, many schools districts expect all teachers--including those who are unmarried--to be addressed this way because it is "more respectful.)

Does this really happen? It's been making me nuts walking up and down the halls of my kid's school to see that every single teacher is listed as Mrs. and none as Ms. or Miss (or, God forbid, Mr.). Even the principal, who has a doctorate, is sometimes referred to as Mrs.

Your observations cohere with the larger landscape of K-12 education. The only places I am aware of where people are called "Dr." if they have that degree are Catholic schools.

Two cents or so:

I learned about the distinctions of title hierarchy(?) in elementary school in a large urban public school district. Our school principal was Dr. So-n-So and was referred to as such by everyone in authority - teachers, parents, coaches, lunch workers, maintenance workers, whatever... this is the first start. I also encountered quite a few Dr. Teachers throughout elementary and secondary school. It wasn't uncommon... did I have a real clue what earning the doctorate entailed at the time... no but that didn't change the fact that I knew there was a difference between someone that was Mrs./Ms./Miss or Dr.

As a HS teacher that was extremely young for my educational background and experience, and I look 5-10yrs younger than I am anyway, I was teaching kids that were only a few moons younger than I was and some of them knew it, others didn't. One approach I took was to never introduce my first name in introductions at the beginning of the year. I'd simply write 'Mr. Xtree' on the chalkboard or overhead projector and go from there. It was understood amongst my teacher colleagues that we never addressed each other by first name in the presence of students - essentially the whole school day except maybe on breaks in the teacher's lounge.

Lastly, on my wife's behalf, she was most annoyed by being referred to as Miss/Ms. or worse 'Sweetiee' instead of Mrs. XTree because she looks young like me and assumed to be fresh off the boat. In most cases these were references by parents and other teachers that barely knew her but IMHO ought to have known better.

To this day I have a hard time transitioning to referring to my former phd advisor or any of my old profs by first name even though we're now equivalent in title... certainly not rank and achievement. This is probably also my 'Southern' polite/respect for elders upbringing as well. It's likely that when *fingers crossed* I get into a faculty position I'll revert back to the no-first-names-in-front-of-students behavior again.

I do cringe/fret now with my wife/daughters and our family friends in social situations though. Do I want to be referred to as Dr. XTree or Mr. XTree, as I referred to my friend's parents growing up, not many Drs but always an informal title used? Or do I continue with the weirdness of Mr. Chem (firstname)?

*I edited this a bunch, sorry if it's still confusing*

[voxprincipalis]

I am sad that "Ms." never became part of our general vocabulary. It really was a useful term. But you hardly hear it outside of a faculty lounge.

Based on your anti-"hu" argument (which we do not need to resurrect), I'm surprised you allow for this term. Shouldn't your response be "simply call her 'Miss or Mrs.', or better yet, re-formulate your address so that no neutral term is needed" ...?

;)

On a more serious note, I usually need to send my freshpeeps an email about something or other before the start of the term or year, and since they don't know me, I usually start out by saying, "Hi! This is Dr. Principalis from your Basketweaving 101 class. I usually go by Dr. P, so you should feel free to call me that. I'm writing you because..."

VP

[ls410]

I teach a lot of elementary education majors and have had several students call me Ms. (My first name).  I'm from the south so it was more amusing than annoying.  I've had students correct other students in the class for calling me Ms. (last name) - telling them that I'm Dr.  That was awesome.

[sugaree]

I too hate the Mrs. label and am constantly annoyed at the assumptions that come with it. First year students fresh out of high school, I understand their potential confusion and I am here to teach them after all. Grocery checkers and telemarketers, however, should never assume the Mrs. title - why is the default not Ms.?

But I digress. I always introduce myself as Dr. Sugaree. It doesn't always stick, but my initials appear as drs so even in emails, smart students assume the Dr. title preference. Indeed, I just had an exchange with a student today (first day of classes) as she is missing class tomorrow (sigh, already?) and wanted to meet with me to pick up the syllabus, etc. She addressed the email Mrs. Sugaree, I responded and signed with my initials, she responded with a salutation of Dr. Sugaree and with an apology for calling me Mrs. and that she wasn't used to university standards and terminology yet.

Of course, the question of gender politics is still present as male profs seem to get "awarded" the Dr./Prof title much more readily than women. But I also wonder if there isn't less of a political charge behind the term Mr. so much that it matters less to (most? some?) men.

[mirandaf]

Students typically call me "Professor Such-and-Such" or "Professor Such" or "Dr. Such." (I have a hyphenated last name.) Few, if any, call me "Mrs." in the classroom. One student calls me M'am, which I find kind of funny. I don't much care either way, but confess that it bugs me when the student workers in our offices call me "Mrs." I don't usually correct them, though.

It could be worse. A colleague - let's say his name is Robert - sometimes gets called "Bobby" or "Bobby-My-Man" (the equivalent of, based on his real last name) by our most lazy department student worker. To him, them's fightin' words.