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Author Topic: Push for shift in Research Funding in Canada to "Big Five" universities  (Read 1303 times)
helpful
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« on: August 26, 2009, 11:34:27 AM »

Canada's "Big Five" Universities are pushing for a shift in research funding to them.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/five-universities-team-up-to-push-for-the-lions-share-of-research-dollars/article1261964/

Here is a reaction from one non Big Five University President (who has also worked in the US system).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/no-to-a-second-tier-educational-model/article1262807/

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prof_tournesol
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« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 08:27:16 PM »

I think Dr. Runte hit most of the key nails squarely on the head. There might be a good discussion to be had in this country about the direction of higher education but "GIVE ME MORE MONEY" is not the best way to start it.

Also, the naked attack on innovation and merit-based research funding is a total non-starter. It is simply idiotic. I've served (twice) on SSHRC SRG committees and I can assure you that there is no momentum towards the idea of giving more money to Big Five. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I have to wonder about the level of thought that went into this proposal...
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cranefly
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« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2009, 07:50:13 AM »

I am hoping that the "real" plan behind this idea is to create some controversy and get people interested in the fact that ALL our universities are woefully underfunded. I think if they'd gone to the Globe and said "Universities are underfunded" the Globe would have yawned... but this way at least people are talking about the issues.

I'm mostly against the idea, but at the same time, there's a small part of me that recognizes the days of spending many years exploring avenues that may not turn into anything are over. We've gone too far in the "results driven" direction, but that's a whole societal change, and we're unlikely to ever go back. There needs to be SOME changes in the structure of the Tri-Council funding, IMHO, but I odn't believe the Big Five should get the majority of funds.
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grasshopper
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« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2009, 09:59:26 AM »

Don't researchers at the larger universities get a substantially higher amount of funding anyway? I'm no stats person, but that pie graph was very pretty.

A researcher who has access to research facilities and departmental/university/admin support is going to have a stronger application for funding in the first place, right? And working at a large school (with more money than, say, Nipissing University) is going to put someone in that category of researchers with access to university support. The Big Five already have an edge. Now they want to make that edge policy? I'm not buying it.
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obprof
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« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2009, 10:33:15 AM »

I hate the idea of all the research funds going to only five schools. Students benefit tremendously from being taught by at least some profs who are engaged in research -- why exclude so many from this opportunity?

Besides, four of the five top people in my field are not from the proposed recipient schools.

The whole proposal just seems so mean-spirited and narrow-minded.
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malcha
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« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2009, 11:37:26 AM »

It may have been true in that legendary academic past that the best and most deserving researchers in any subject were almost all to be found at the big name schools.

Anyone who has taken a good look around in the last few decades knows that that is no longer the case.
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prof_tournesol
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« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2009, 02:35:08 PM »

Quote
Don't researchers at the larger universities get a substantially higher amount of funding anyway? I'm no stats person, but that pie graph was very pretty.

Any school with a med school is going to have a huge funding advantage over the Nipissings simply because of CIHR. Even in SSHRC fields, though, there is an advantage of being at a larger research focused school in that it opens up opportunities for researchers to flourish. In my experience with the SSHRC SRG committee, this is something that the committees are cognizant of and try to adjust for, so that applicants from St FX, for example, aren't penalized for a lack of graduate supervision and such. This new proposal is a real slap in the face to the merit-based culture that the Tri-Councils have worked so hard to create.

Quote
It may have been true in that legendary academic past that the best and most deserving researchers in any subject were almost all to be found at the big name schools.
Anyone who has taken a good look around in the last few decades knows that that is no longer the case.

Very true. I think that if we charted research growth over, say, the past half century one would conclude that schools like Waterloo, York and Calgary deserved more funding than Montreal. If I recall the Maclean's research rankings from last year correctly (and I probably don't...) Calgary rivaled UdeM, despite the fact that UdeM is much older.
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canadatourismguy
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« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2009, 11:12:19 AM »

This is just an exercise to get names in the paper and been seen in the public as being the top five universities.  I think this is a marketing exercise more than a serious attempt.  If we tell you we're great long enough, your likely to believe it.

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On preview:  Candadiantourismguy is a subversive of the first order.
obprof
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« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2009, 11:49:32 AM »

The other news in the Globe this morning: U of T is no longer going to allow faculty at other Canadian univeristies to take out its books.

Never mind that the libraries were built with public funds. Never mind that other universities allow U of T faculty to use their resources.
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