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[dlarkin]

Hi,

I just got a phone call regarding tenure-track Lecturer position offer from the Aberyswyth University in the area of genomics. They want to send me an offer. I have no idea about the UK academic system, I spend last 8 years in the USA. My current position is Research Assistant Professor. The department they want me to work in is expanding which is good I assume. The salary they mentioned is 37,600 pounds... I have family and not sure is my wife will get a job in the UK fast. Is this a reasonable salary for this place? Will we be able to survive? Can I negotiate salary and start-up funds? I assume that teaching is already low... They want me to call them tomorrow and tell what I think (maybe this is a good time to start negotiation?). Thanks.   

[qrypt]

If you have no idea about the UK system, then why do you want to work here? 

The salary is enough to live on; housing there isn't terribly expensive.  Typically there's no negotiation on UK salary offers -- but 37k seems low for someone with 8 years experience (though perhaps your 8 years includes your PhD program...) and you might get something out of making that point (if I'm not misinterpreting your situation). 

But in general it seems a bit late to be posing the questions in your post.  To get a sense of current issues in UK higher education, you might read at www.timeshighereducation.co.uk

[dlarkin]

Thanks for the reply. Regarding you comment on why I want if I don't know...We just want to relocated in Europe and this is the first offer I'm going to get. I do not think it is too late to ask questions because I still did not accept the offer...

[expatinuk]

I'm confused... have you had an interview?

It's most unusual to get a post in the UK without an interview. That would violate a whole ton of HR rules... especially if you're not UK or EU....

[dlarkin]

Yes, I had an interview.

[scotia]

Hi,

I just got a phone call regarding tenure-track Lecturer position offer from the Aberyswyth University in the area of genomics. They want to send me an offer. I have no idea about the UK academic system, I spend last 8 years in the USA. My current position is Research Assistant Professor. The department they want me to work in is expanding which is good I assume. The salary they mentioned is 37,600 pounds... I have family and not sure is my wife will get a job in the UK fast. Is this a reasonable salary for this place? Will we be able to survive? Can I negotiate salary and start-up funds? I assume that teaching is already low... They want me to call them tomorrow and tell what I think (maybe this is a good time to start negotiation?). Thanks.   

The salary looks reasonable - last time I looked that part of Wales was not particularly expensive (it is a long way from any of the major cities and with not great transport links, but if you don't mind that it is a beautiful area of the country). UK salaries are based on specific points on a nationally agreed salary scale, so you will need to be able to justify why you thing you should be appointed at a higher spine point. This might not be easy to do in the current financial climate.

It is also worth asking about teaching. You can never assume anything, and in the UK there is often a culture of team teaching courses, so you may find yourself being asked to contribute to a number of courses, depending on the needs of the department.

[dlarkin]

The salary looks reasonable - last time I looked that part of Wales was not particularly expensive (it is a long way from any of the major cities and with not great transport links, but if you don't mind that it is a beautiful area of the country). UK salaries are based on specific points on a nationally agreed salary scale, so you will need to be able to justify why you thing you should be appointed at a higher spine point. This might not be easy to do in the current financial climate.

It is also worth asking about teaching. You can never assume anything, and in the UK there is often a culture of team teaching courses, so you may find yourself being asked to contribute to a number of courses, depending on the needs of the department.

Thank you for your reply.

I actually liked the place itself. It is nice and the nature around is great.

I did ask about teaching during the interview and they said that the full load is about 150 hours per year and since I'll be on 3 year probation period I will start with half of that (~75 hours) in the first year, then it will increase in such a way that after the third year I'll have a full load... They also told me that the course I'll be teaching will be based on my specialty.

I understood that it is difficult to negotiate salary, but I will try. They did not tell me that I can not do that. Is it reasonable to ask for money for relocation because the whole family will move for the USA? When I moved to the USA from Europe I was provided with that...

[scotia]

Absolutely ask for relocation. Some places give a percentage of salary and some reimburse 'reasonable, receipted costs' or some other such wording. One or two will not pay, or have a ceiling sum that will not meet full expenses, but they seem to be exceptions.

[dlarkin]

Absolutely ask for relocation. Some places give a percentage of salary and some reimburse 'reasonable, receipted costs' or some other such wording. One or two will not pay, or have a ceiling sum that will not meet full expenses, but they seem to be exceptions.

I was able to get salary increase to from 37K to 44K pounds. They said that there is a relocation package but they were not ready to give me the details yet. I will discuss the details of the start up package and how soon they want me to come and after that I'll need to make a decision.     

[dlarkin]

Will it be appropriate to ask for a second visit (with my wife) before I accept the offer? I would like her to look at the place and maybe see if she would be able to find a job as well. I don't want to push my department about her job (do not think it is appropriate), but maybe they could help in organizing meeting with people from her area of study

[secretweapon]

Will it be appropriate to ask for a second visit (with my wife) before I accept the offer? I would like her to look at the place and maybe see if she would be able to find a job as well. I don't want to push my department about her job (do not think it is appropriate), but maybe they could help in organizing meeting with people from her area of study

I think it's extremely unlikely they'd accept this.  UK universities tend to make hiring decisions very quickly.  Hopefully someone more senior will weigh in here, but from what I've observed, you're just going to have to gamble on whether she can get a job.  It would not be inappropriate, however, to ask if anyone has any contacts in your wife's field.  What kind of job would she be looking for?  Is she an academic, too? 

[scotia]

Will it be appropriate to ask for a second visit (with my wife) before I accept the offer? I would like her to look at the place and maybe see if she would be able to find a job as well. I don't want to push my department about her job (do not think it is appropriate), but maybe they could help in organizing meeting with people from her area of study

I think it's extremely unlikely they'd accept this.  UK universities tend to make hiring decisions very quickly.  Hopefully someone more senior will weigh in here, but from what I've observed, you're just going to have to gamble on whether she can get a job.  It would not be inappropriate, however, to ask if anyone has any contacts in your wife's field.  What kind of job would she be looking for?  Is she an academic, too? 

For a superstar chair we will arrange a second visit at our expense. For lecturer/senior lecturer you would be welcome to visit, but at your own expense. Also, if this is likely to delay a decision and we have a strong second choice we are likely to start putting pressure on you for a decision fairly soon, as secretweapon hints.

If your partner is an academic we may put you in touch with a department, but UK jobs tend to be advertised when they are available (and have to be advertised) so if there are no adverts out there it is very likely that there are currently no jobs available unless, for example, someone has recently had a grant funded and is looking for a researcher. This does not mean they will not become available: academics in the UK tend to move around more than in the US and job openings come up throughout the year. The UK hiring system is very different to the US system. Because of the greater mobility of academics and the fact of permanent contracts rather than tenure we place much less emphasis on 'fit' and hire as required, rather than in a particular hiring season. It is quite possible, therefore, we want someone to fill a particular requirement sooner rather than later. And only in very senior hires have I ever seen people going out of their way to help with spousal hires of any type.

[wegie]

Further to what scotia says, I did my PhD in Aber, so I've seen a bit more of the system there first hand. There are adjunct jobs available for spouses, but they take can forever to open up, and none of them are usually anything other than tutoring positions. If a permanent position comes up, it's a requirement at all UK universities to advertise nationally.

On a more personal level, I've seen a number of relationships founder because one partner couldn't or wouldn't adjust to Aber. If you take this post you must be certain that both you and your wife can cope with the cultural and physical isolation of Aber, as it's three long hours to civilisation in every direction. Oh, and does she hate rain? If she does, she will loathe Aberystwyth.

[betterslac]

Aber can be rainy during the winter, but it is a fun place to be-- interesting pubs, local sports teams, a hill fort and a ruined castle, as well as the National Library of Wales, Welsh and English dancing clubs and other interesting places within reach by rail. I should think you should do ok on that salary if you aren't extravagant (though my knowledge of the cost of living is a bit dated).

[qrypt]

On a more personal level, I've seen a number of relationships founder because one partner couldn't or wouldn't adjust to Aber. If you take this post you must be certain that both you and your wife can cope with the cultural and physical isolation of Aber, as it's three long hours to civilisation in every direction. Oh, and does she hate rain? If she does, she will loathe Aberystwyth.

Hmm -- it's two and a half hours to Cardiff (driving).  Drive for three hours from Aberystwyth and you'll be in England.  What wegie appears to mean, then, is: 'civilisation' ≠ Wales.