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[voxprincipalis]

I'm wondering how those of you who seem to be adept at this skill - not taking things personally, not pinning one's expectations, emotional or otherwise, on another - have achieved it. (Im thinking in particular of Naan and VP, but anyone is, of course, welcome to weigh in.) I struggle so much with this, and would love to know how to get beyond the (both unproductive and, frankly, deeply egoistic) knee-jerk response of thinking that every interaction has reference to my emotional state, my interiority.

Sigh. Thanks in advance for any help.

I had a post here, but the new fora ate it. I am trying not to take it personally. ;)  I will retype it in a bit, as it was a good post, but I'm frustrated and irritated now.

VP

[t_r_b]

  ;) 

I am very disappointed with the appearance of the winky face in the new font. Mods, I hope you're paying attention.

[terpsichore]

Most of the advice so far emphasizes distancing yourself from the comment, partly by examining your own reaction.

I have the opposite advice. I find it helpful to empathize with the person making the comment, to really try to understand what they could be thinking and feeling. Most times, I realize that the person who lashes out has their own issues that drive their interactions, and even a comment that might feel directed at me personally probably isn't.

[barred_owl]

There is a bit of a middle ground, as I see it, between distancing yourself from the sources of criticism and what terpsichore said about trying to understand the other person.  I don't think anyone can completely avoid those occasions when someone else says or does something that one will take personally.  That said, I've found it helpful (through many years of trial-and-error, i.e., larryc's 'bitter experience') to reflect on the interaction and, then, come to the realization that the other person is, after all, only human and comes complete with lots of 'baggage' to that interaction (as terpsichore explained).  It's not always possible for that reflection to happen immediately, of course, but when it happens, it makes it easier to deal with the initial hurt. 

[conjugate]

I am not sure how to tell other people how I learned not to take things personally.  In part, of course, it had to do with realizing that some things weren't meant personally, so I didn't take them personally.  But it's almost impossible to realize something like that if you don't realize that.

There was an experience that helped me enormously in not taking things personally, but I do not recommend it to anyone; that is getting involved with an emotionally abusive person.  When someone flew into a rage and declared that the way I load the dishwasher showed me to be a heartless wretch who can think of no one but himself, the absurdity of the claim pulled me out of the situation and let me see that the rage was misplaced.  I didn't take it personally.

One thing my marriage counselor suggested to avoid (as Barred_Owl suggests) saying things that others might take personally is to work on how you say things.  Thus, casting sentences with "I feel that..." or "When you do ____, it makes me feel ____," will help.  If somebody says to you something like, "Don't you even care about ____," mentally recast it as "I feel you don't care about ____."  Perhaps that will help you to cope.

There are a few books that can go into more detail, though in my experience it takes a lot of book reading and experience with the situations they describe to do any good.  One of these books is Suzette Hayden Elgin's The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense, which, though flawed, has some excellent advice.  Check out books on assertiveness in the local library as well.

I wish OP and others well.

[t_r_b]

There was an experience that helped me enormously in not taking things personally, but I do not recommend it to anyone; that is getting involved with an emotionally abusive person.  When someone flew into a rage and declared that the way I load the dishwasher showed me to be a heartless wretch who can think of no one but himself, the absurdity of the claim pulled me out of the situation and let me see that the rage was misplaced.  I didn't take it personally.

In my case, getting involved with an emotionally abusive person only made things worse, as I took it all very personally and believed a good deal of the abuse (in this case, the abuse was seldom as patently absurd as the dishwasher-loading example).

Splitting up with an emotionally abusive person, though: that has been a transformational experience in all sorts of ways, not taking things personally being a big one.

[normative_]

Yeah, yeah, you hate me and/or my values. Take a number.

Actually, if someone actually hates you as a person, it is entirely appropriate to take that personally.

Not necessarily. Sometimes the person who hates you is just a whackjob. If you happen to be married or otherwise attached to that person, then you should take that seriously, by which I mean, what it says about you remaining connected to said WJ. And take some consequences so you don't have to care any more.

The trick is distinguishing between "this person hates me" and "this person just savaged my manuscript."

Well, that makes sense. Though in writing that, you've perhaps never read a reviewer's report that crossed the line. I believe there is a 'reviewers on crack' thread. Don't take my word for it. Have a look for yourself.

[spork]

[. . .]

When someone flew into a rage and declared that the way I load the dishwasher showed me to be a heartless wretch who can think of no one but himself, the absurdity of the claim pulled me out of the situation and let me see that the rage was misplaced. 

[. . .]

In my case it was not storing the tea properly.


Once you realize that everyone else is wrong, it gets quite easy.

[marigolds]

Thank you all - there are many helpful things here that I will continue to mull over.  Two in particular stick out: Tolerantly's idea of criticism as a type of gift is helpful; I already feel this way about criticism of my work, and if I can just import that into my personal life a bit more, I think it will be very helpful.  And Naan's words about turning off the analytical mind (I am in lit crit too, actually) and paying attention to somatic sensations and emotions were precisely what I needed to hear.  I think I am doing far too much textual analysis on the people in my life, and that it's a big part of the problem. 

[testingthewaters]

Turn 30.

I'm not sure exactly why, but since passing that milestone a number of years ago, I very rarely give a rat's a$$ about other people's opinions on me personally. Not that I don't integrate constructive criticism (particularly about work or work in progress), I just don't take it personallly any more.

[wild_rose]

I agree that it's particularly difficult when it's family. In that case, it does help a bit if you can distance yourself emotionally from their comments (and people can be particularly verbally abusive to family members because it's "safe"). In my case, understanding their motives and motivations helps a bit (Are they trying to keep you from leaving home, thus leaving them alone? Did they have a verbally abusive parent themselves? Are they afraid of losing control over you or the situation?), but it will always be easy for them to suck you back into their drama (or whatever they have going) because they know which of your buttons to push. Remember, it's in their best interest to keep you from changing or growing, because then they'll lose their safe punching bag, or lose control over you, or whatever. The more you seem to not be affected by their verbal abuse, the harder they will try.

And by the way, it's the hallmark of the abuser to blame you for their abuse of you. "But I was only kidding; it's all your fault for taking it the wrong way."

[mzunderstanding]

There are a few books that can go into more detail, though in my experience it takes a lot of book reading and experience with the situations they describe to do any good.  One of these books is Suzette Hayden Elgin's The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense, which, though flawed, has some excellent advice. 

One of my favorites. Deserves another read in my current situation. Thanks Conjugate.

[bread_pirate_naan]

And Naan's words about turning off the analytical mind (I am in lit crit too, actually) and paying attention to somatic sensations and emotions were precisely what I needed to hear.  I think I am doing far too much textual analysis on the people in my life, and that it's a big part of the problem. 

Good, I'm glad.  One of the side effects of a lot of meditation, for me, is clairsentience.  

Sometimes it is easier to understand these things intellectually than it is to practice them.  Coming back to to the somatic dimension is something that you will do again and again, without criticizing yourself for how long it takes or being hard on yourself if you forget.   That sort of criticism really isn't a gift.  One important part of choosing a meditation practice or discipline is that it isn't necessarily compatible with other worldviews/interpretations.  

A more compatible worldview, or way to reframe the "criticism as gift" perspective, would be to see each interaction as an opportunity to be present.  In fact, some of the advice about recognizing where others are drawing their "inspiration" is key.  If someone shows up to share the gift of their anger with you, you can refuse it.  Not in any obvious way, but just not take it on board.  This is the result of having access to your cultivated and heightened awareness that helps you to discern the quality of intention and the intensity and nature of your own reaction.  If you have categorized an certain type of experience as a gift before you experience it, you are not really present or allowing yourself to notice the constancy of change, but reifying the rightness of your chosen fiction/interpretation/narrative of the gift.  

[hipgeek]

Turn 30.

Chime. Or, also, have put up with enough crazy crap over the years to develop a really thick skin and be able to stand up for yourself.  I actually hate when someone says "don't take this or that personally."  That's a load of bull. A lot of stuff is personal, especially if it's happening in your personal life, and the line btwn personal and professional is often blurred. 

I do think if you can't stand up for yourself and speak out about what troubles you to the offending party, then it's either not that important or you need to value yourself more.  You can never know for sure why someone did or said something, so over-analyzing it can only get you so far.  The only thing you can control is your own feelings and you have to remember that.

[bread_pirate_naan]

The only thing you can control is your own feelings and you have to remember that.

This isn't really true.  Feelings arise to pass away.  They are transitory phenomena.  All you can do is choose to act on your feelings, thoughts and sensation; if you have the space not to react from them.  Once you spend time observing feelings that are both pleasant and unpleasant and recognize that they are phenomenological the only thing you can choose is your action(it takes practice).  Once you realize that your reactions escalate and sustain negative emotional states, one stays present, feeds them less (intellectualization, perseverance, obsession) and as a result is happier.

If you notice your feeling states and the conditions under which they change have a pattern, you can make active choices, instead of falling into reactive patterns.  Like if someone gives you lots of nice "gifts," you can stay the heck away from them.  Or, you can explore different modes of communication and relating to come to a happier place.  It has taken a long time, but I have been able to shift certain "established" patterns in my nuclear family in this way.   If you notice yourself giving interesting gifts, you can observe the feelings (thoughts/sensations/perceptions) that come up with that desire to give and learn to hold a space of presence where you can decide whether or not you are serving your best interest or your ego's interests with your actions. 

The best gift you can give to yourself, is to be present.

PS: The age 30 measure is a tacit astrologic of maturity(Saturn return, orbital period 29.5yrs).  I don't really see it working that way consistently, but it can.