next »

[bmljenny]

The faculty who are cringing over a relatively small temporary pay cut have don't seem to get how damaging this is to public perceptions of us at a time when unemployment is rising and state contractors are going completely unpaid.  We need people to understand that we are taking our share and being good citizens and trying to avoid massive layoffs.  I get that they have bills too and some of them are just as over-leveraged as the average consumer. But if you're so motivated by money that you're willing to jump ship over it, well don't let the ivory tower door hit you on the way out.

[immigrant]

I suspect that for many UC faculty (and I'm not one) it's not a case of being motivated by money but a case of not wanting to wait around for the other shoe to drop. This signals that higher ed is not a priority in CA, and coupled with the devastating K12 cuts means teaching here is going to get a lot more unpleasant once we start getting kids coming in who had 40+ classmates in hith school.

I *do* teach at a less prestigious campus in CA, and love it. I love the people I work with, appreciate students who in many cases have punched way above their weight (in terms of escaping lousy backgrounds that would have sunk me), and enjoy being on campus. But I'd be sorely tempted to jump ship too if a decent job offered itself somewhere where taxing oil companies was considered preferable to turning away 40,000 students and screwing over the ones who are left.

[watermarkup]

The pay cuts aren't small. I think it would be a huge improvement if the general public were to understand that yes, we're in it for the money, just like everyone else in a professional job.

[jwormold]

The pay cuts aren't small. I think it would be a huge improvement if the general public were to understand that yes, we're in it for the money, just like everyone else in a professional job.

Thank you.  Maybe you're being sarcastic, but I actually really agree with you.  I wasn't getting a huge salaries when things were booming (and I was at someplace that had an extremely healthy endowment and large budget at the time, and I didn't even get a yearly cost-of-living adjustment), so I'm not about to take a pay cut now.  I mean, really, I have a PhD and supposedly some skills, and there are retail jobs that pay more than what I make.

Wormold, who is angry and not taking it anymore

[daniel_von_flanagan]

I'm not about to take a pay cut now.

Assuming that at least some pay cut goes through, where are you going to go? - DvF

[t_r_b]

I'm not about to take a pay cut now.

Assuming that at least some pay cut goes through, where are you going to go? - DvF

I think it's safe to say that if a pay cut goes through, the UC system will lose an even greater number of its best teacher/scholars to other universities. Whether or not jwormold would be a competitive applicant for positions elsewhere I do not know, but it's a safe bet that a large number of UC faculty will be.

California, like my own state, is making the decision to shortchange higher education. They spin this to the public as plain old belt-tightening: "times are tough, and we've all got to sacrifice, including those snooty academics." But this isn't like a factory cutting the wages of assembly line workers. The people that are most valuable to the UC system are exactly the ones who will have the best options for going elsewhere. The cost of replacing those people will be high, and they'll have a great deal of trouble convincing people of similar caliber to come on board. The quality of instruction and research will decline, exacerbated by both the flight of top faculty and the slashing of budgets across the board. In the long run, the UC system will become less of a draw for out-of-state students, and the in-state students will get a lot less education for their money. No matter how much the legislature tries to scapegoat greedy faculty members, it will not change this basic reality. It's happening in California and it's happening here too, even though our budget crisis is not nearly as dire.

[conjugate]

The pay cuts aren't small. I think it would be a huge improvement if the general public were to understand that yes, we're in it for the money, just like everyone else in a professional job.

If I were in it for the money, I'd be in a different field, and/or in a related field outside of academia.  I mean, if I'd gone into Financial Math, I might... Well, I might be begging on a street corner with a sign around my neck that says "Victim of Madoff."  But I might also be gainfully employed. 

[daniel_von_flanagan]

It's happening in California and it's happening here too, even though our budget crisis is not nearly as dire.

It is happening nearly everywhere.  For example, the peer institutions that the California Postsecondary Education Commission lists for UC are: Harvard, MIT, Stanford, SUNY-Buffalo, U. of Illinois, U. of Michigan, U. of Virginia, and Yale.  (A slightly odd list - not my choice!) Of these public campuses, only Michigan has not already announced major cuts, and nobody believes that they won't do so soon.  The privates are also having their problems, and in any event are relatively tiny and can only accommodate so many 'transfers' from UC.

Look, I think it is perfectly reasonable for UC faculty to be resisting this on as many fronts as possible, and the "don't cut or we'll move" narrative is a reasonable one for them to use in dialogue there.  I hope this narrative is successful, since many states are watching California closely (and many Presidents/Chancellors will follow Yudof's lead); the California faculty experience will have implications for all of us.   However, I hope no UC profs are so disconnected from the real world as to actually believe that any but a handful can move easily to a better combination of salary/location/department.  Sure, a few will move, and the schools will be poorer for it, but the actual number will be far smaller than you're making out.

The real immediate threat to higher ed right now in California (and many other states) is layoffs and hiring freezes, especially for lecturers/instructors and instructional or research support staff.  This might well bring much of the daily operation of the campuses to a grinding halt.  If I had the option, at my school, of taking  a 5% or even 10% temporary salary cut in return for a guaranty that we could keep our staff and contingent faculty, I'd jump on it. - DvF

[inthelab]

I'm not about to take a pay cut now.

Assuming that at least some pay cut goes through, where are you going to go? - DvF

I think it's safe to say that if a pay cut goes through, the UC system will lose an even greater number of its best teacher/scholars to other universities. Whether or not jwormold would be a competitive applicant for positions elsewhere I do not know, but it's a safe bet that a large number of UC faculty will be.

Where will they go?  I've had 2 offers go into limbo due to the economic crisis everywhere.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Where will they go?  I've had 2 offers go into limbo due to the economic crisis everywhere.

Is that the U. of Limbo, Limbo State U., or Limbo Tech? - DvF

[lost_angeleno]

Texas Tech has lots of money and could take them in - see thread on Bertie G. Of course that would turn TT into the intellectual powerhouse of the south-central united states.  We can't have that now, could we?

[conjugate]

Texas Tech has lots of money and could take them in - see thread on Bertie G. Of course that would turn TT into the intellectual powerhouse of the south-central united states.  We can't have that now, could we?

Tech already thinks it's the intellectual powerhouse of the region.  Just ask some of the faculty there about standards for tenure now as compared to, say, five or ten years ago.

I talked to some folks there and they were frankly very discouraging about the prospects; of course, I'm less a researcher and more a teacher, so perhaps that played a large role.  But a few people I knew there said they couldn't get tenure under current standards, and that was a little discouraging.

Meanwhile, I am happy the California people aren't in competition with me for the jobs at the small places. 

Where will they go?  I've had 2 offers go into limbo due to the economic crisis everywhere.

Is that the U. of Limbo, Limbo State U., or Limbo Tech? - DvF

Lots of folks would be happy with Limbo A&M or even Limbo Community College.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Texas Tech has lots of money and could take them in - see thread on Bertie G. Of course that would turn TT into the intellectual powerhouse of the south-central united states.  We can't have that now, could we?

To the extent that UC is losing some of their big name people, Texas seems to be one of the main places they are going.  - DvF

[fizmath]

Has there been a trend this past decade for schools to more aggressively recruit big name profs?  I recall reading that the U of Illinois lost many of their top faculty to schools which offered higher salaries.

I don't think those U of C salaries are too high.  Just three years ago the median home price in CA was over 500K.  If you are the best in your field then I think you deserve a home.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Has there been a trend this past decade for schools to more aggressively recruit big name profs?

Yes.

I don't think those U of C salaries are too high. 

I agree; the issues isn't whether UC professors are underpaid (they are), but rather whether the situation is better anywhere except the privates.  Perhaps Texas can absorb the entire UC faculty, but Columbia (another school currently feeding from the UC trough) can't. - DvF