next »

[sciencephd]

In biology, biochemistry, and chemistry, I would say that at this point this list of faculty is not particularly impressive.

[martins]

There seem to be a lot of people making 'ridiculous' decisions...take a look at  

http://www.kaust.edu.sa/about/faculty.aspx

before you jump to conclusions.  You'll see that people have left positions at places like Stanford, Columbia, MIT, etc. to come to KAUST.

Okay I will concede your point if you can give just one example of a professor, who resigned from a tenured job at a top uni, and joined KAUST. I think all of them are taking a short stint at KAUST, while on leave from their university for raking in the cash.

[arjen_rienks]

For all postdocs coming to KAUST: think twice.

I made that decision only to find myself at an institution with NO academic tradition, where the academic partners like Cambridge, Imperial College and UCSD are backing out already.
Living in a house for which the term "barely finished" would be a compliment, with rats  running in the kitchen living on-campus is not exactly what was promised.

About Shaheen (quoting from mathdoc, who seemed to be sponsored by KAUST):
>It's the 3rd fastest academic supercomputer in the world (14th fastest overall; just check out top500.org ).

Except that it is turned off (appearently indefinitely) now because severe airco problems. M$ of damages already.
The climate here is oppressive: very hot and being close to the sea, very high (90 %) of salt humidity. Kills equipment in no time.

>Why are people coming to KAUST?  Clearly one reason is the unparalleled research funding and unmatched >research facilities. 
With empty rooms and labs everywhere, a better name would be "Neutron bomb" university.


>If you are concerned about 'the regime' in Saudi Arabia, you should be aware that KAUST is a private >university funded by a privately held endowment.  You can see the board of trustees here: >http://www.kaust.edu.sa/about/board-trustees.aspx
>Apparently people like the presidents of Princeton, Cornell, NIH, and CERN think KAUST is serious about >research.

Don't forget that you are in a strict Muslim country with very strict rules about what you can/cannot do. You wife will be severely restricted when she gets off-campus. She cannot even drive a car. Nothing to do for miles around.
If you like to live in a golden cage and completely ignoring the poor people in the next village, welcome to KAUST.

Arjen

[martins]

Dear Arjen,
What you have described is what you should have expected even before starting as a postdoc. I am surprised that you were not prepared for this when you signed up as a postdoc. In my opinion everyone there is strongly motivated by the money. I saw postdoc ads that advertised a salary of 100k USD, tax free+housing. Such a figure is only being offered so that some may overlook the other horrible conditions in there, as well as being a career dead end.

[mathdoc]

Responding to Arjen, just trying to provide accurate information:

I don't "seem to be sponsored by KAUST"; I am KAUST faculty, as I stated in my first post.  Your claim that KAUST's partners are backing out is simply untrue.  Shaheen was turned off for a couple of weeks in September.  It has been running since then.

If you are coming to KAUST expecting a life of ease and entertainment, don't.  If you are expecting to have the same smooth experience you would at a university that has been established for 100 years or more, think again.  Yes, you will definitely face unique challenges here.  If you're merely motivated by money, you're right that it's not worth it.

If you want firsthand (informal) information about what it's like at KAUST, look at the following site, and others linked from it (including perspectives of students, postdocs, and other community members):

http://saudiaggie.blogspot.com/

[arjen_rienks]

Dear Mathdoc,

Interestingly enough, it was KAUST that did break the relation with Cambridge U. (UK) and Imperial. For so far my spokesmen know these relations are still not restored and no mention of them anymore at the KAUST website.

I was (note the past tense) coming to KAUST to participate in the adventure of setting up a new university. In my field, structural biology, there seemed a wealth of opportunities for research. No shortage of equipment from the best manufacturers, apparently no shortage of funding. I was totally prepared to go through the first years of setting up a new lab. Money is not a motivating factor for me as long as I am paid in the same range as my peers. I am young enough to not have serious problems with my pension funds like some of the other faculty members. My research plans are clear and should be achievable in an average lab.

What in fact, looking back, totally upset me is the total chaos in the KAUST organization, the absolute impossibility to "get things done" in a normal fashion, i.e. within a certain timeframe and with proper craft manship. Ordering chemicals and supplies and small equipment for the lab proved to be impossible. If something was finally ordered, delivery times were uncertain and most of the time the packets arrived opened, incomplete or broken. No one seems to care, no one takes his job anywhere near serious, everything is done "the day after tomorrow". KAUST IT is a joke, they cannot keep the labs network running reliably for more than a week, let alone getting any decent Intenet connectivity. I deal with large (> 10GB) datasets sometimes and to get these into KAUST is an exercise in patience. I am fully prepared to work hard but I don't think I should spent my energy on a malfunctioning organization like KAUST. Why do you have all expensive Macs and laser printers in the library if no one did think of ordering paper?

The feeling that became stronger and stronger was "Why am I trying to do this, no one cares anyway". Neither the Aramco people I tried to deal with nor the rest of the faculty seemed to care-for them, being there, having built this large university seemed enough, if research is done (and what the outcome is) is apparently irrelevant.  I felt like a player in a drama with all too expensive scenery. This university is obviously a showcase for HM the King, to show that Saudi Arabia soon will rank among the leading scientific nations in the world. My apologies, Your Majesty, I am not your puppet on a string.

What finally tipped the scale was the discrepancy between the promises before signing the contract and the actual reality. I am now referring to the housing situation. It might be cool for master students to live in a 5-star hotel for a while, if someone says "your house will be ready when you arrive" I take that seriously. Then, moving into a house where the ceiling tiles drop on your head when you slam the door, rats coming into the kitchen through not covered holes, mould in the bedrooms is more than my wife can handle. Reading the last posts about the flood on campus in November we were glad to be out already.

Being a master student and having a good time is completely different than trying to do research, it seems. I noticed that a significant portion, more than 1/3, of the students that started at KAUST on September seem to have decided already not to return after the winter break. If that would be the case I hope it sets the KAUST faculty and staff thinking how to retain and attrack new generations of students.

I am glad that I am safely back at my old university.  Luckily my position was still unfilled so I could more or less resume where I left off, having lost only a few months.

I sincerely wish everyone at KAUST much success in their endeavours.

Arjen

[ucprof]

I have been lurking here.  As a female scientist I am curious how women are working at KAUST.  So if mathdoc is still reading this - how does it work there?  Is life on campus, for women faculty and students, just like being at a western univ?  Can one dress in western outfits without all that covering?  Can one talk to men in normal conversations as we do in the US?  And if so, how does it work when one goes "off campus"?  What about driving?
Suppose one wants to go for a jog or a bike ride?  Can one wear jeans or sweatpants and a t-shirt if one is on campus?  What about e.g. rollerblading?  I could not imagine rollerblading covered head to toe in one of those black robes.  Ditto for swimming in a pool.   If one is a "big shot" female scientist in the west would one be treated like an equal there with the men, or as a second class scientist?  I have seen some young female profs on the faculty list but no one senior, although I have not looked that carefully.....and the young women all seem to have Arabic names. 

[notaprof]

I have been lurking here.  As a female scientist I am curious how women are working at KAUST.  So if mathdoc is still reading this - how does it work there?  Is life on campus, for women faculty and students, just like being at a western univ?  Can one dress in western outfits without all that covering?  Can one talk to men in normal conversations as we do in the US?  And if so, how does it work when one goes "off campus"?  What about driving?
Suppose one wants to go for a jog or a bike ride?  Can one wear jeans or sweatpants and a t-shirt if one is on campus?  What about e.g. rollerblading?  I could not imagine rollerblading covered head to toe in one of those black robes.  Ditto for swimming in a pool.   If one is a "big shot" female scientist in the west would one be treated like an equal there with the men, or as a second class scientist?  I have seen some young female profs on the faculty list but no one senior, although I have not looked that carefully.....and the young women all seem to have Arabic names. 

Can't answer all your questions, but they do make Islamic friendly bathing suits and sports clothing.
http://www.jelbab.com/Swim-Suit.asp

[arjen_rienks]

As an answer to ucprof's questions, life on the KAUST campus is reasonably comparable to the life on a western (European/American) campus. I did not see, during the months that I worked and lived there, women wearing tank tops and similar clothing but casual dress is normal for students and staff. Some Muslim women wear a head scarf and even fewer the abaya, the full body covering (including head) black veil. Very unusual for SA is that in KAUST that female and male students are in the same class, i.e. co-educated. This fact alone caused some uproar in Saudi Arabia as the sexes are totally separated in education. There are a few gemale staff and scientists at KAUST but those with a western background seem not be overly happy.

Things are totally different outside the fence, outside the "golden cage" of KAUST. Saudi Arabia is governed by the strict Muslim Shari'a laws, meaning that women do not have *any* rights, not to act on their own, not to drive, not to go out unless accompanied by a male relative, not allowed to enter a restaurant unaccompanied and so on. Unless you confine yourself to the happy, blissful and ignorant life inside the KAUST fence, you will be confronted with a society which is, if I interpret your post, rather different from the one you are used to. The differences between the very poor and the very rich are unbelievably large. Go visit the poor fisherman's village of Thuwal, just outside the KAUST gate and compare their "facilities" to the ones you as KAUSTian have at your disposal.
You can happily rollerblade, cycle, jog, walk, inside the "golden cage", apart from the fact if outside exercise is pleasant in a climate of >40C and 90 % humidity. Outside: no way, not in the least because Saudi driving is extremely dangerous. The campus is large so you will have the chance to exercise.

Does this answer your questions?

[ucprof]

Does this answer your questions?

Interesting AR to hear about life inside the fence at KAUST.  Thanks for the detailed response.  I have been quite curious about that.  Are you a student or faculty?

[arjen_rienks]

I *was* postdoc at KAUST. Lured by the nearly unlimited possibilities, dazzled by the equipment (including a supercomputer) that would be available, in good faith that everything, including housing, would be as on the glamorous website I was soon hired by a very convincing recruiter. I asked if it was possible to visit KAUST before signing the contract: "No, not yet, but everything will be fine". When I moved with the family to KAUST at end of June, things started to move downhill rather quickly. *Nothing* was as promised!! Campus was a construction site, housing was not ready, impossible to do anything than sit and wait. When the university officially opened end of September I hoped that things would improve but not so. We decided to move back in October so I am now very happily working in my old position again-see also my earlier post. I judged that I cannot/will not afford my time waiting for KAUST to organize itself, competition is just too fierce in my field.

Morale of the story (1): don't believe glamorous websites or recruiters, go see for yourself. Don't be so naive ever again.
Morale(2): trying to build a first-class university in what I consider a third-world country is an enormous adventure and risk.

[southerntransplant]

Arjen -

Just out of curiosity - is this just growing pains? The university is brand new. My university has a campus in Qatar and it seems to be going smoothly (I think in a year I'll get a chance to go see for myself). I just wonder to what degree everybody will get their act together in say 5 years or so.

[ue9293]

I need some one's help who is working at kaust to get some idea about the research. Please send me your contact in my inbox.
thanks.