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[zone77]

Hi All,

I am thinking about returning to grad school to finish my doctorate. I want to complete my degree for both professional and personal reasons, with the professional outweighing the personal. In order to move up to the next level in my field, I have to have a doctorate. There is no way around it.

I currently work full-time, but with a flexible schedule. I have a young child, getting close to her first birthday. I have a very supportive spouse who has said he will go the extra mile to help out during those not-so-pretty times when I am overwhelmed with everything.

I am wondering if I am completely out of my mind thinking I can complete this program while working full-time, taking care of my child and remaining on speaking terms with my spouse. Oh, and I would like to also try to have another child in the next few years since I am entering the mid-30s. (I am guessing that some of you are doubling-over and laughing at this point - totally understandable)

I am quite sure I can handle the course work. Is it completely unrealistic to think that you can do all of this AND write a dissertation? I know it will be tough, even excruciating, but if it is at all possible, I think it would be worthwhile.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share!

[macaroon]

Wait - you were previously in a PhD program and you dropped out?  Is that what you mean by "finish your doctorate"? 

What field are you in?  Most PhD programs are designed to be done "full time".  So working "full time" while doing a "full time" PhD isn't a very good plan.  It isn't, um, crazy or anything.  It just isn't going to work out.

[inthelab]

Second macaroon's post.  My grad school wouldn't consider anyone who was working.  A lot won't.  Fellowships may demand it, quality scholarship definitely demands it.

[zone77]

I had completed 18 credits towards a doctorate a few years ago, but I was offered a great job and the opportunity to move out of Tiny Town w/ Big University. The program was not well organized. The department had lost faculty and was going through a complicated re-org of sorts... classes were canceled... it just didn't work out.

Now, I have another opportunity to possibly start another program in Education, part-time. I have to work full-time. Interesting thing is that all of the students in the program are part-time as well. That gives me a little hope... I think...

[voxprincipalis]

So, you would be pursuing a PhD or an EdD? It sounds to me like you might be talking about an EdD program, since no PhD program (at least, none that comes to my mind; perhaps you know of one that I don't) would be composed of all part-time students given the extensive work, teaching load, research expectations, and dissertation requirement.

VP

[toothpaste]

So, you would be pursuing a PhD or an EdD? It sounds to me like you might be talking about an EdD program, since no PhD program (at least, none that comes to my mind; perhaps you know of one that I don't) would be composed of all part-time students given the extensive work, teaching load, research expectations, and dissertation requirement.

VP

Actually, I teach in two PhD programs that permit part time students with full time jobs (and often family obligations as well).

It's not impossible.

Just wildly, wildly difficult.

[voxprincipalis]

So, you would be pursuing a PhD or an EdD? It sounds to me like you might be talking about an EdD program, since no PhD program (at least, none that comes to my mind; perhaps you know of one that I don't) would be composed of all part-time students given the extensive work, teaching load, research expectations, and dissertation requirement.

VP

Actually, I teach in two PhD programs that permit part time students with full time jobs (and often family obligations as well).

It's not impossible.

Just wildly, wildly difficult.

Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't questioning the presence of a part-time student in a PhD program, but are there traditional PhD programs in which *all* of the students are part-time, as OP describes? It seems much more like the kind of setup an EdD program is likely to have -- in which case, as we have discussed many times here, the workload may well be very different.

VP

[yonus]

Zone77, you're not too crazy.  From experience, the hardest part is not feeling guilty for writing/reading/working when your spouse is watching your child.  The key to the rest is the same as it would be w/o children or spouses: maximize time, avoid distractions, and drink (this last one is partially a joke).  Kids are so schedule oriented that I find myself better utilizing my time now that I have a 2 year old as compared to when I was childless.  It sort of sounds ridiculous, but think about setting aside specific blocks of time for different tasks (child time, work time, school time, spouse time, etc.).  I find it definitely helps when everyone knows when (or at least IF) they will receive some of your valuable time or presence.  Aside from that sort of thing, actually surviving school probably depends on the difficulty of the program, flexibility of faculty (it helps if faculty have kids), self-motivation, and, of course, finances. 

Cheers.

[gennimom]

The Education programs here offer PhDs for the most part. A few still offer EdDs but they are slowly being weeded out.

Almost all of the students in PhD programs in Education are part time around here. Most take 6 hours a semester, which is part time. If you take 3 night classes a week or 2 night classes and one Saturday class (if your school offers them), then it would be possible to be full time. Nine hours constitutes full time here. I don't know how you could work a 40 hr/wk job and take 9 hours with all the attendant study hours you would need though.

[normative_]

It's wildly demanding but not impossible. If you're a fast reader, have a quick analytical mind and write well without too much humming and hawing, and your husband will take care of the baby a lot (or you pay for daycare) you could do it. The real question is whether you'll be able to hold up that pace for say, 5 years, as an average time to complete the degree. You're talking about very long work weeks for that period at least.

[bluesocks]

I can't say whether or not your plan is crazy.  I was a single mom with a young child in the last 2 years of my PhD work.  I know people who went part-time, worked, and were parents (moms)--and finished!

So, it is possible.  You have to prioritize to make it work.  You will definitely need to depend on others for help--childcare, especially.  And, it will likely take much longer than you expect--say 7 or 8 years instead of 4 or 5.

My question is this...what is your goal when you finish?  Why do you want to do this PhD?  If you want to be a tenure-track prof, are you willing to move when you finish?    Do you need a PhD for your career goals?

I would also consider the quality of the program.  Are the graduates of this program successful in landing the kind of position you want?

When you limit yourself to one university that happens to be near your home, you may be sacrificing options in the future.

blue

[autie13]

Hi,

No you aren't crazy.  It can be done.

I'm doing an EdD program full time, have two young kids (one is special needs) and a husband and a 20 hour a week job.  I have daycare for the kids and I divide up my time into blocks.  I am all school Mon-Fri 9:30a-4:30p (minus 20 hrs for work)and then back to schoolwork again after the kids go to bed at 9pm until I am done (maybe 1 or 2am).  My personal rule is that if it is "kid time" I am fully present- I don't allow myself to think about school or do schoolwork if they are awake and need my attention.

On nights I have class (usually one per week) my hubby takes over.  I thought my kids would miss me but turns out they love spending that time with Daddy (he takes them to McD's which Mommy does not do!). 

Good luck!

[thundering_m]

Second BlueSocks, Zone 77.

Having experienced parent responsibilities, full time employment, poor health, and a rigorous quantitative program that was a steep learning curve for humanities-oriented old me, I can tell you that like northern winters, once it's cold it's just cold; once you are on fatigue-as-anthesthesia momentum, you can't get any more tired.

There are no convenient times to be insanely and deeply immersed in either babyhood or grad school, nor is there anything more rewarding than either condition. Jump in the deep end and start swimming, once you have your life support well staged. That means prioritizing your commitments and having a candid talk with people who may expect you to serve more than you will have hours. Work has simply got to stay confined to a 'normal' work day; leisure time will always involve reading.

Working backwards from your dream, how is the program going to help you move toward it? Are you motivated by a need for personal enlightenment, compatible colleagues, career advancement, pure inquiry, new lifestyle opportunities, or a compulsion to complete what you started? Motives are always mixed, but which ones seem to resonate, and is everyone affected going to be better off once you are done?

[athena1]

It will be hard, but it can be done, especially if you are very goal-oriented and organized. It will enhance your child's relationship with dad if you are away and they have to figure things out together.

[helpful]

Most of the Education Phd programs I know of have a majority of students as part-time. The distinction between Ed.D and Ph.D. is a distinction between writing a dissertation (ph.d) and writing a report or project up (Ed.D). The Ed. D would have just as many courses as the Phd.