witness
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« on: June 02, 2009, 01:05:20 PM » |
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I offer this as something of a coda to the 'avoid Fatih University' thread and it seems relevant too to a couple of more recent posts on the pros and cons of taking a masters degree in Turkey. This is an article that appeared on 1 June 2009 in the English Langage version of the Turkish daily Hurriyet. Anyone considering coming to Turkey to work or to study would be wise to take note. http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/domestic/11765449.asp?scr=1Over the last decade or so there was been a relaxing of the state and the military's grip over Turkish politics and society, in the name, of course, of developing democracy. And what new democratic will has grown in these new conditions? Well, the Islamic AKP has been running the country since 2002 and will unquestionably win a third term at the next national elections, which will take place in 2011. And what fine democratic sentiments have grown in the wider socety. Read the article, and see for yourselves in this little taster that I have copied and pasted for you... ------------ 'Three of four people in Turkey said they do not want a neighbor who drinks alcohol, while the same percentage said they do not want neighbors who do not believe in God. Sixty-six percent said they do not want a Jewish neighbor, while 52 percent said they do not want to live next to a Christian.' ------------ The releasing of the state's grip has opened a lovely little Pandora's Box of bigotry, prejudice and nastiness. The average Turk does not like Christians, nor people who live together out of wedlock, nor Jews, and they really really hate gays. In short Dr Westerner, they don't like you. Welcome to Turkey! |
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alpha_bet
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 04:55:22 PM » |
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A recent survey also revealed more than half of the citizens of Munich would prefer not to live next to a Jew...
I kind of have to wonder what the American responses to these questions would be (especially substituting "Muslim" for "Christian)...
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embitteredhistorian
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 04:59:08 AM » |
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A recent survey also revealed more than half of the citizens of Munich would prefer not to live next to a Jew...
I kind of have to wonder what the American responses to these questions would be (especially substituting "Muslim" for "Christian)...
This is why I'm applying for a job at the University of Antarctica, although some of those penguins are real bastards. |
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post_functional
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 08:28:16 AM » |
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You'll be teaching lots of snowflakes.
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Action is his reward.
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embitteredhistorian
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 08:38:09 AM » |
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You'll be teaching lots of snowflakes.
ROFL Epic, flawless, perfect post. Thanks--you've made my day. |
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innocent
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« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2010, 04:53:04 AM » |
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Very amusing responses. But my personal experience is that Turkish society is very racist, and that foreign faculty is treated badly. If you want to claim that other societies are racist as well, that would be a correct though utterly pathetic argument. In a nutshell, whereas in other places racism is considered an embarrassing evil that should be treated, Turkish racism against Westerners, Jews, Arabs (yes!), women and minorities is never acknowledged and never treated as a serious problem. You can argue about it until you're blue in the face, but don't go teaching there. Period.
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raanders
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2010, 01:11:27 PM » |
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Wow. My experience in Turkey is completely different. I think "most Turks" are quite tolerant and respectful. I do agree that individuals with no religious affiliation may cause suspicion.
Each country has its share of bigots. Turkey is no exception and neither is the USA. Maybe you are not used to experiencing "isms?" If you are a person of color in the good ole USA, you wouldnt be protesting so much, you would be seeking to understand the history and societal bases for these sentiments. Or better yet, working toward a social justice perspective and partnering with others to created change?
Now if you want to discuss the rights of local women, children and Kurds, especially in the southeastern parts of the country that may lead to another kind of discussion. I think the discrimination of foreign faculty is really not that important, foreign faculty usually have a choice to GO HOME! BUT, those citizens of the country who are experiencing these same evils have few options.
Maybe you will feel a larger sense of belonging by speaking with Turkish citizens from marginalized populations. Think/act outward, instead of inward. There are numerous NGO's involved in creating change in Turkey and they would be very insulted to hear that you think no one is treating these things as serious problems.
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innocent
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2010, 01:22:03 PM » |
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Are you "a person of color in the good ole USA?" Because if you were, I assure you that your experience in Turkey wouldn't have been so positive either...
As for "the discrimination of foreign faculty is really not that important"... Well it's important to foreign faculty. It's not so nice to drag someone to another country, treat them badly and say "you have a choice." Do you? After you quit your job and moved half way across the world?
Are you a foreign faculty member being treated badly?
At any rate, if the question is how are foreign faculty members treated in turkey, then their being treated badly is important. At least in this context.
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raanders
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« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 03:09:28 PM » |
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Yes... I am a person of color and my experiences in Turkey have been fine. In fact, my friends and colleagues in the southeast on several occasions have compared our experiences of marginalization..without any prompting.
I still say try to connect with NGO's that work on issues of discrimination within Turkey. You might find some common ground there.
Feeling stuck is a choice.
Best of luck,
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lifelife
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2010, 02:33:46 AM » |
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With out doubt Turkey is the most racist country I have ever lived or worked in and I have been teaching all over the world for the past thirty years including Korea and Lebanon which at the time I thought were pretty bad. The simple fact that most Turks can't or refuse to speak or learn any language but their own and despise those who do speaks for itself. Stay clear of Turkish universities they are for the most part dire.
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yavona
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« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2010, 03:42:02 PM » |
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Hello everybody,
As in every country, some of our people offcourse racist, aggressive, not happy etc.. But we can't say that all Turkish people racist because of %5 percent. Most of Turkish people are respectfull especially to foreign people. We'll be happy to see you all in Turkey :)
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witness
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2010, 05:24:03 AM » |
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Absolutely yavona; just ask the Kurds and the Armenians and they will confirm what you claim!
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regular_joe
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2010, 09:27:29 AM » |
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Absolutely yavona; just ask the Kurds and the Armenians and they will confirm what you claim!
Yes, Turks tend to have prejudices against Kurds, Armenians, and Greeks. (I have always heard about Turks' kindness and friendliness to foreigners, though, and I must say that they have always been friendly to me.) In the European country where I used to live, Roma were the ostracized group. |
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tinyzombie
She hides the stars under her hair, and is a
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Posts: 5,594
elevate from this point on - chuck d
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2010, 09:30:43 AM » |
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Absolutely yavona; just ask the Kurds and the Armenians and they will confirm what you claim!
That poster is a spammer. |
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*waving tiny zombie flags* Correct, as usual, TZ. That's because you are not Dude. TZ, however, is Dude. TZ is my favorite. |
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innocent
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2010, 09:56:34 AM » |
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Why do you think so? It doesn't look like spam (and what would it be spamming for)? At any rate, I think that this discussion should address academic working condition rather than entire national populations. Generally speaking (and there are exceptions of course) is it good for foreigners to be employed in Turkish universities? Are they treated like native faculty members, receiving the same privileges and career opportunities? Is this the case even when they are Black, Indian, Arab, Jewish and/or female? Absolutely yavona; just ask the Kurds and the Armenians and they will confirm what you claim!
That poster is a spammer. |
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