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News: Talk about how to cope with chronic illness, disability, and other health issues in the academic workplace.
 
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Author Topic: Article: "I'll Never Do It Again"  (Read 12309 times)
temporaryname
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« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2009, 07:43:39 AM »

As a student, I find that I usually learn more in online discussions than I do in face-to-face discussions.  While it is true the discussions can take much long online, it gives me a chance to look up new information to enter into the discussion.  For example, I can look up journal articles and cite new information that may not be mentioned in the textbook and sometimes not known by the professor.
I don't doubt all that--but in a course like the one that I'm teaching (think the entire development of Snobbery Theory over the course of the twentieth century), the gain of depth at the expense of breadth doesn't help. Basically, I have to cover four major theoretical approaches instead of the seven or eight I'd normally want to cover in a graduate class.

I don't think this is good. (For other classes it may be wonderful, of course.)
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websterian
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2009, 08:01:37 AM »

  I've had success with both totally face-to-face and totally online courses, but with the hybrid ones, my students just couldn't adjust to the variation in modes.  Their general attitude seemed to be that they didn't really have to do the online part of the course because it wasn't "the real class." 

This has been exactly my experience too - it's funny (in both senses) to be earnestly told by those higher up in the dept that our students are champing at the bit to explore the possibilities e-learning, and then find that they often feel that seminars and lectures are the "real" education they came to uni for.
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marigolds
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« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2009, 05:44:35 PM »

I currently teach a few sections of composition and/or literature online every semester and in summer. For motivated students, the educational experience is equal to and sometimes greater than what they might gain in the "regular" classroom.

I realize that my methods won't apply to all disciplines, but I absolutely must say that you CAN have rich, dynamic, educational discussions in an asynchronous online environment. This CHE FORUM is an example of that. You CAN create a similar environment in your online course. There can be "A HA" moments online. People CAN form relationships. You can have an energetic "collaborative learning" environment in the online classroom.

This might not be the place for it, but Zuzu, I'd love to hear what kinds of activities and assignments worked well for the online environment - I haven't taught a fully online class yet (prepping!  want to!) but in all the classes I've taught that had/were meant to have a significant online component, the online part turned out to be a total bust.  Blogging reflective journals?  No; completely lame, shallow journal entries, refused to read/comment on each others' posts.  Online discussion of material?  Not interested; only did it if I was a legalistic jerk about it and graded on number of posts and content (which does NOT imply engaged learning and free-flowing discussion.)  Facebook group for the class and associated discussion board?  No thanks, we're busy taking this important quiz to find out WHAT BAD-A33 THING ARE YOU???

I had thought it was because they are habituated to really fast, relatively shallow interactions online; I know I am less interested in reading really long, thoughtful essays online and responding to them because, for me, the internet is associated with messing-around time, not real working/thinking time. 
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polly_mer
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« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2009, 10:24:20 AM »

I, too, would like to read about things that work online as either parts for a hybrid course or as completely different methods that are necessarily online.  I know we have a whole board for that, but I think giving us some examples of different techniques that work instead of merely asserting that good online techniques exist would help this discussion.
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zuzu_
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« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2009, 11:38:33 AM »

OK I will give an example.

I recently taught an online course that dealt with television as literature. As part of one discussion unit, students were given 5-6 discussion prompts similar to these two:


Click here to go the [adult swim] video library. Select an episode and/or clip to analyze. Use the terms and concepts you learned about in chapter eleven. Be sure to indicate which video you chose so that other students can find it and join the conversation.

Click here to go the Film Chest Vintage Cartoon archive. Select an episode and/or clip to analyze. Use the terms and concepts you learned about in chapter eleven. Be sure to indicate which video you chose so that other students can find it and join the conversation.


The result? Spirited and intelligent debate with hyperlinks embedded as evidence to support arguments about everthing from South Park to Betty Boop.

Can you see how this type of discussion simply could not be replicated in the "real" classroom as easily? The students have to take time to review clips and formulate their arguments. Other students can see what they are referring to with the click of a button. THEY direct the discussion, whereas if I were to replicate this in real classroom, I would likely select the clips that we would all watch together.

In a class like this, I count discussion as 40% of the overall grade. These are the criteria established in the syllabus:

GRADING PARTICIPATION/DISCUSSION FORUMS

To earn an “A” for participation you must…
   Create posts that raise original, complex ideas about the text(s) and go beyond more obvious, traditional interpretations
   Create posts that use many short quotes and other appropriate details from the text/video(s) to adeptly illustrate these ideas
   Post to EVERY forum and leave no doubt in my mind that you carefully read EVERY assigned textbook chapter and/or viewed all required material
   Log in multiple times per week to engage in active, meaningful dialogue with other students in the Discussion Forums
   Address multiple discussion questions and write a total of at least 600 words in EACH full class discussion unit and 300 words for each serial episode in your small group
   Create posts that contain virtually no errors in spelling or grammar

To earn a “B” for participation you must…
   Create posts that clearly grasp of traditional interpretations of the texts
   Create posts that use many short quotes and other appropriate details from the text/video(s) to adeptly illustrate these ideas
   Post to EVERY forum and leave no doubt in my mind that you carefully read EVERY assigned textbook chapter and/or literary work
   Log in multiple times per week to engage in active, meaningful dialogue with other students in the Discussion Forums
   Address multiple discussion questions and write a total of at least 600 words in EACH full class discussion unit and 300 words for each serial episode in your small group
   Create posts that contain no more than a few errors in spelling or grammar

To earn a “C” for participation you must…
   Create posts that usually demonstrate a grasp of traditional interpretations of the texts
   Create posts that use some short quotes and other appropriate details from the text/video(s)  in an attempt to illustrate these ideas
   Post to EVERY forum
   Log in at least once per week to engage in dialogue with other students in the Discussion Forums
   Address multiple discussion questions and write a total of at least 400 words in EACH full class discussion unit and 200 words for each serial episode in your small group
   Create posts without spelling or grammar issues that interfere with meaning

To earn a “D” for participation you may…
   Create posts that occasionally demonstrate a grasp of traditional interpretations of the texts
   Create posts that only sometimes use short quotes and other details from the text/video(s) 
   Not post to EVERY forum
   Rarely engage in discussion with other students in the Discussion Forums; log in only once a week or less
   Write fewer than 400 words in each full class discussion unit or fewer than 200 words per serial episode
   Create posts with spelling or grammar issues that begin to interfere with meaning

To earn an “F” for participation you may…
   Create posts that rarely demonstrate a grasp of traditional interpretations of the texts
   Create posts that rarely or never short quotes and other details from the text/video(s) 
   Not post to EVERY forum
   Rarely or never engage in discussion with other students in the Discussion Forums; log in only once a week or less
   Not approach a minimum of 400 words in each full class discussion unit or 200 words per serial episode
   Create posts with spelling or grammar issues that seriously interfere with meaning

Assuming my students are reasonably motivated (some are, some aren't, and this naturally varies from section to section), this WORKS. The grading system establishes "concrete" criteria while still allowing me to assign a subjective grade to students' discussion participation.

And of course, I have to facilitate discussion, deciding when to get involved and when to back off. Just as in the "real" classroom, this requires somewhat intangible skills to direct the class energy in a productive, educational direction.
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kedves
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« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2009, 11:41:18 AM »

Thank you, Zuzu!
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marigolds
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« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2009, 12:20:32 PM »

Excellent assignment - I would be into that, too!  I bet that generated fabulous discussion. 

Now I just have to figure out how to make these principles work with stuff they probably don't want to read (like Melville...)
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kamiakin
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« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2009, 01:45:03 PM »

Short version of the article: I suck at online teaching.
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zuzu_
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« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2009, 02:21:02 PM »

Short version of the article: I suck at online teaching.

And don't forget: "Get off my lawn!"
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polly_mer
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« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2009, 07:30:55 AM »

Thanks, Zuzu!

My main thought after reading your post detailing your class is that those students had better be motivated or drop after reading the syllabus.  I bet those discussions are great, but, wow, I'm stunned at how much more work is involved over attending class, participating in discussion, and writing a couple of papers.

Of course, my bias is that those kinds of humanities classes are easy (what, all I have to do is watch television and write a couple papers? Piece of cake!) so I'm glad to see extra engagement that makes thinking (and one hopes learning) mandatory.
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zuzu_
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« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2009, 08:01:35 AM »

Thanks, Zuzu!

My main thought after reading your post detailing your class is that those students had better be motivated or drop after reading the syllabus.  I bet those discussions are great, but, wow, I'm stunned at how much more work is involved over attending class, participating in discussion, and writing a couple of papers.

Of course, my bias is that those kinds of humanities classes are easy (what, all I have to do is watch television and write a couple papers? Piece of cake!) so I'm glad to see extra engagement that makes thinking (and one hopes learning) mandatory.

Well it is a CC, and I have students who drop, but my retention rates are no worse than other online instuctors' at my institution or elsewhere. I find that (both online and in the classroom) student will generally rise to your high expectations. And frankly, my courses aren't all that hard. Any reasonably intelligent and hard-working student can easily get a B.
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