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[daisyaday]

Hello everyone,

I'm mostly a lurker, although I have posted to a few of the CHE boards from time to time. I'm writing on behalf of my husband. He has applied to UOP and they have provided him with a series of questions to answer via email as part of the application process. Unfortunately, he is out of town visiting his parent's farm in Iowa and won't be back until the replies are due. He has limited and unreliable computer access for contacting them and for looking online for some help with one of the questions he is struggling with. He is not sure what kind of participation is mentioned below - is it just as he decides or do they require you be online at certain times? Any help or examples you can give would be most appreciated. I'll be contacting him by phone in about three hours. Thanks much! Daisy
_______________________________________

Participation is very important for the student as well as the facilitator. As a facilitator, you will be required to participate in the online classroom environment 5 out of 7 days a week. How would you meet these participation requirements? What types of techniques would you use to get students to participate?

[jonesey]

Why on Earth is your husband applying to the University of Phoenix?  (I'm assuming that's what you meant by UOP, and not the University of the Pacific). 

[gourmand601]

UOP's online courses are "asychroneous"... meaning that faculty and students do not have to be online at the same time. The University allows for flexibility on both ends. You just have to make sure that you log in and actually do some work 5-7 of those days and/or times. Whether it be responding to the discussions or grading work, the course monitor makes sure that the course instructor is actively involved in the learning process. He should have access to a working lap top, PC, or even a 3G network that will allow him to complete his work.

UOP provides an excellent opportunity to work with working adults. These students tend to be more serious about their learning and oftentimes make the best students.

I have a lot of online teaching experience, and I must say that UOP is the God of online learning. I say this because they're programs are productive (for faculty and students) and made into a fine science. I say this because most other universities do not have the financial or human resources available to invest in the online learning infrastructure to build a successful course. I use to teach online for the CalState system and faculty involvement beyond grading papers and providing comments such as "good job" was not required.....student attrition was extremely high in the programs.

At UOP, faculty has to be hands on. It can be a lot of work for the instructor, but if you're there for the students you will enjoy every second of it.

Tell him good luck!

[daisyaday]

Thank you, True Scholar! This is very helpful. My husband is really good with nontraditional students and I think they would benefit from having him "facilitate" a class, to use UOP's lingo.

To the other poster, my husband has some disabilities that prevent him from lecturing in a traditional classroom. He does teach online classes for a community college where we live and is quite successful at it, but there aren't enough of them (from a financial standpoint), so he thought UOP might be a good solution and a good fit. You could stand to take a course in common courtesy, yourself. Maybe you can find one online. :P

[aandsdean]

UOP's online courses are "asychroneous"... meaning that faculty and students do not have to be online at the same time. The University allows for flexibility on both ends. You just have to make sure that you log in and actually do some work 5-7 of those days and/or times. Whether it be responding to the discussions or grading work, the course monitor makes sure that the course instructor is actively involved in the learning process. He should have access to a working lap top, PC, or even a 3G network that will allow him to complete his work.

UOP provides an excellent opportunity to work with working adults. These students tend to be more serious about their learning and oftentimes make the best students.

I have a lot of online teaching experience, and I must say that UOP is the God of online learning. I say this because they're programs are productive (for faculty and students) and made into a fine science. I say this because most other universities do not have the financial or human resources available to invest in the online learning infrastructure to build a successful course. I use to teach online for the CalState system and faculty involvement beyond grading papers and providing comments such as "good job" was not required.....student attrition was extremely high in the programs.

At UOP, faculty has to be hands on. It can be a lot of work for the instructor, but if you're there for the students you will enjoy every second of it.

Tell him good luck!

Within the last 10 days, I had the chance to see the graduation data for Phoenix.  They graduate fewer than 20% of the people who start their undergrad programs within six years.

I'm skeptical that it was worse in the Cal State system, which also costs about 20% as much.  But then, they don't have stockholders.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

jonesey teaches at a private for-profit like UOP, so is just trying to share some of his own negative experiences.

TS is a very vocal advocate on this forum of online for-profits like UOP and Walden.  However, most posters do not share his enthusiasm.

If your husband is applying as a lecturer, then most of the criticisms probably do not apply, as they are generally responses to would-be students wondering if a degree from such a school is a good starting point for an academic career.  (Answer: no.) - DvF

[daisyaday]

Thanks Daniel. I guess that sheds a different light on Jonesy. I thought he was being rude. I guess I was kinda rude in return, which never helps. Turn the other cheek and all that. Sorry Jonesy.

My hubby is primarily looking for additional part-time income, so maybe it would be a good fit for him. We'll see. Any other advice would be welcome.

Daisy

[jonesey]

To the other poster, my husband has some disabilities that prevent him from lecturing in a traditional classroom. He does teach online classes for a community college where we live and is quite successful at it, but there aren't enough of them (from a financial standpoint), so he thought UOP might be a good solution and a good fit. You could stand to take a course in common courtesy, yourself. Maybe you can find one online. :P

My apologies; I thought he was applying to be a student at UoP (possibly for their new PhD program).  As a lecturer/instructor, it's not a bad gig.  UoP demands a bit more than other online schools, but it's not particularly demanding.  As TrueScholar says, it's just a matter of time management.  

Has your husband looked into other schools with online courses?  Troy University is a good one, too, depending on his academic area.

[daisyaday]

Thanks Jonesey. I'll mention it to him. Sorry for kicking sand in your direction.

Daisy

[gourmand601]

jonesey teaches at a private for-profit like UOP, so is just trying to share some of his own negative experiences.

TS is a very vocal advocate on this forum of online for-profits like UOP and Walden.  However, most posters do not share his enthusiasm.

If your husband is applying as a lecturer, then most of the criticisms probably do not apply, as they are generally responses to would-be students wondering if a degree from such a school is a good starting point for an academic career.  (Answer: no.) - DvF

I am an advocate for ALL education, for-profit and not-for-profit. If the institution carries the appropriate accreditation(s)... I am fine with it.

I currently work in both sectors (traditional and online: for-profit and not-for-profit) and speak from experience. Many people do not share my enthusiasm for online learning simply out of ignorance and spite...and that is fine. But I know that the not-for-profits can learn a lot from the for-profits. They have poorly qualified people developing their programs and cannot afford to get the real distance learning gurus like UoP..etc. Look at the demise of the Colorado State University online leg... hard times. University of Illinois... trouble. CalState poorly served its students and moved to charge its online students $2200 per course when it attempted to dump its Extension Ed services. Some state institutions (Michigan) have moved toward "privatization", which in my opinion is the same thing as making a profit. They opt out of state funding and get private firms to secure their ventures.

And on an ending note... I agree that a degree from UoP or similar institutions are not the best place to begin an academic career. However, we must not assume that an academic career is what everyone wants. I have a colleague who earned a Ph.D. from UC Berkeley and is hell bent on not becoming an academic. Instead she wants to work for the federal government. I know a lot of people like this.

UoP is an institution for working adults: mostly nontraditional students who want to earn a degree to move ahead in their own places of employment. They're not trying to write books or be invited to the Oxford Roundtable. They are hard working adults; many of them who are first-generation college students. And I believe in my heart that Jonesey's husband will love working with them... (well most of them).

I love teaching and I love performing research. I enjoy publishing and presenting my work, but I also love working hands on with students of all ages. So, again, I am an advocate for ALL levels of education.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

Many people do not share my enthusiasm for online learning simply out of ignorance and spite...

Yeah, all the people who disagree with me are also ignorant and spiteful.

UoP is an institution for working adults: mostly nontraditional students who want to earn a degree to move ahead in their own places of employment.

This is a great niche for online for-profits; alas, UoP also gives degrees in some fields (such as nursing) where one would have hoped for most of the education to have been live and in-person.

And I believe in my heart that Jonesey's husband will love working with them...

I can't wait to hear Jonesey's reply to this one. - DvF

[gourmand601]

Many people do not share my enthusiasm for online learning simply out of ignorance and spite...

Yeah, all the people who disagree with me are also ignorant and spiteful.

UoP is an institution for working adults: mostly nontraditional students who want to earn a degree to move ahead in their own places of employment.

This is a great niche for online for-profits; alas, UoP also gives degrees in some fields (such as nursing) where one would have hoped for most of the education to have been live and in-person.

And I believe in my heart that Jonesey's husband will love working with them...

I can't wait to hear Jonesey's reply to this one. - DvF

I stand corrected... I meant to say Daisyaday's husband and not Jonesey.

And as for UoP's nursing program, it is intended for nurses who are already practicing in their field and not aspiring nurses. Many community colleges graduate nurses who are RNs but not BSNs or MSNs. These nurses further their education by attending an accredited 4 year institution. Earning the BSN will give a practicing RN the credentials to not only get a pay increase but also be considered for other positions. An MSN will allow them to teach. To add, like any credible nursing program, UoP's nursing program is accredited by CCNE which is part of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN), the only national organization dedicated exclusively to furthering baccalaureate and graduate nursing education. Plus, UoP's nursing students must complete supervised clinicals too.

We must not assume that the only way you can learn from UoP is online. It continues to be a brick and mortar institution with full time and adjunct faculty (more adjunct than full time) who teach these working adult students.

And.... no, I do not work for UoP or any of its affiliates.

[jonesey]

I can't wait to hear Jonesey's reply to this one. - DvF

I've got no problem with gay marriage...

DVF makes a great point; UoP (and other FP's) are good at what they are: degree providers for working adults in niche markets.  They offer limited degrees (business, public administration, etc) for people who already know what they want to be when they grow up.

My problem with FP's is that a large number of students are 18-22 and are still trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives.  At $5,000/quarter (yes, quarter) an FP is not the place for someone to do that. 

FP's target abnormally high amounts of first-generation, poor, and minority college students.  These are people who don't have anyone to talk to about making good decision regarding higher education.  They want to get "any" degree "now" because all they know is that a degree = more money, or at least a better job that working at Checkers all day. 

UoP's low graduation numbers (and they're not the only ones) reflect their status as an open-admission university, much like a CC.  The difference is that CC's don't cost $20,000/year, and they have many options for students, both those who are career focused and those trying to find something they enjoy enough to get an actual degree in. 

FP's don't do this.  In fact, if a student is undecided, they do everything they can to funnel him or her into one if their four or five degree options ("What?  Don't want Nursing?  No problem; you're a perfect fit for Public Administration."). 

FP's aggresively target "prospects" (think Army recruiter and you'll get the idea) and do all they can to keep asses in the seats (you can't make money with an empty classroom).  Not all FP's are the same, but the bottom line is that because their mission is business first, they'll never become the kind of respected, research and/or teaching institutions that they dream of becoming.  Legitimacy is about more than the financial bottom line.

[daisyaday]

As someone with a master's degree who poked their head into the UOPs Ph.D. door a few years ago, I can confirm Jonesey's description of UOP's vigorous pursuit of potential students. Even though I decided against UOP (and any Ph.D. at the time), I continued to get follow up phone calls for several days and the emails continued for months.

Daisy

[daisyaday]

UPDATE: What a mess!

DH was doing well as a UOP applicant to teach an online class. He had made it thought the paper and telephone interview and was being told how impressive his credentials and experience are and they were about to put him into their two week online training program. He had been receiving emails from two people there but working most closely with just one of them. When he asked her about what kind of contact he needed to have with the other person, she immediately withdrew the offer for further progression through the interview process and online training. she did this via a curt email of about three sentence.

Apparently the other person was with UOP's ground program, while she was with the online program. Applicants for teaching at UOP online are not permitted to be in an application process with anyone other than them. Even UOP ground. The real mystery here is that DH just went to the UOP page and filled out the application and submitted it. He was not intentionally applying with both and he had no idea that both persons contacting him were not with UOP online.

When he tried to expalin that by email (she won't answer the phone), he was told that he is welcome to reapply in six months. HA! I don't think he'll be doing that. UOP is so cut and dry. DH calls the woman "robotic". He thinks he dodged a bullet here, because the two weeks of training is unpaid and they can still decline to hire you after that.

What a mess. We really do need the money, but if they are like this now, I can't imagine how they would be down the road if there were problems of any kind.

sigh.....

Daisy