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[fiona]

I think there's something in many grad programs that does make students feel like they have to snipe instead of agree or analyze.

You can now read this article, and snipe, agree, and/or analyze.

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/05/2009051201c.htm

The Fiona

[conjugate]

I think one problem of mine as a grad student was a lack of assertiveness that made me unwilling to criticize or challenge ideas.  So I didn't do these things, but should have come closer.

[carebearstare]

I would say that it's not just grad students. Reviewing in general tends to fall into harsh/negative and effusively positive. And guess what? Negative reviews are more fun to write.

I have read (and received) scathing anonymous peer reviews from journals; seen many a restaurant, film, and music reviews that were almost drooling with venom. Why should book reviews be any different? There are, after all, a lot of bad books out there.

[bread_pirate_naan]

I think there's something in many grad programs that does make students feel like they have to snipe instead of agree or analyze.

You can now read this article, and snipe, agree, and/or analyze.

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/05/2009051201c.htm

The Fiona

If you put "MLA" or "MFA" or "sh!tty" in front of "grad programs," I agree completely.


On preview.  Yes, exactly.  So many of those are too cool for school.

[kamiakin]

"They hate everything," he said. "It's because the reviews are written by graduate students." That, he seemed to think, was explanation enough.

Yep. I went to what I thought was a great program, but mostly what we did in the readings classes was read great, amazing, cutting-edge books and try to tear them apart. And older grad student once asked, quite sincerely, "How come we aren't allowed to like anything?" Not every class was run that way but most of them were.

It was not without its advantages. We really analyzed the craft of our discipline. But I wonder if this approach does not have a lot to do with the extreme difficulty so many people in the humanities have with finishing their dissertations. I mean when you spent the week tearing down David Hackett Fischer and Laurel Thatcher Ulrich and Gordon Wood, what are you going to write?

[notaprof]

My momma always said, "If you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all."  Momma loved a good war of words.

[kedves]

My momma always said, "If you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all."  Momma loved a good war of words.

Google has let me down.  Who said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit beside me"? 

I looked for my guesses, Tallulah Bankhead and Truman Capote, with no luck.

[jonesey]

I think there's something in many grad programs that does make students feel like they have to snipe instead of agree or analyze.

You can now read this article, and snipe, agree, and/or analyze.

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/05/2009051201c.htm

The Fiona

If you put "MLA" or "MFA" or "sh!tty" in front of "grad programs," I agree completely.


On preview.  Yes, exactly.  So many of those are too cool for school.

One of my MFA profs described his experience at the Iowa Writers Workshop as "Marine Corps Boot Camp, but without any character building."  

I didn't go to Iowa, but there was a bit of tearing down in my program as well.  

Part of it is youth.  Hating everything is part of being young.  

[jonesey]

My momma always said, "If you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all."  Momma loved a good war of words.

Google has let me down.  Who said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit beside me"? 

I looked for my guesses, Tallulah Bankhead and Truman Capote, with no luck.

Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

[kedves]

My momma always said, "If you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all."  Momma loved a good war of words.

Google has let me down.  Who said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit beside me"? 

I looked for my guesses, Tallulah Bankhead and Truman Capote, with no luck.

Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

Thank you very much!

I bought the Yale Book of Quotations last summer, but I couldn't find that in the index.  It's in the book, though.  I misquoted; it is:

     If you can't say something good about someone, sit right here by me.

I also like:

     Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches.

[balancing_act]

Snide, no. Critical, yes.

Most of my (history) seminars, after discussing content and context, are spent half on what is really great about a book/author and the other half on criticisms, i.e., the author's approach, use of sources, supported claims, and so forth. One question that comes up a lot is, "Would you teach this book? Why or why not? And, if you had to, how? What would you, or could you do differently?" These questions are helpful more in seeing how a book is useful than how we can tear it apart.

[bread_pirate_naan]

I think there's something in many grad programs that does make students feel like they have to snipe instead of agree or analyze.

You can now read this article, and snipe, agree, and/or analyze.

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/2009/05/2009051201c.htm

The Fiona

If you put "MLA" or "MFA" or "sh!tty" in front of "grad programs," I agree completely.


On preview.  Yes, exactly.  So many of those are too cool for school.

One of my MFA profs described his experience at the Iowa Writers Workshop as "Marine Corps Boot Camp, but without any character building."  

I didn't go to Iowa, but there was a bit of tearing down in my program as well.  

Part of it is youth.  Hating everything is part of being young.  

In the Venn diagram of life, sh!tty and prestigious are not mutually exclusive.

[mended_drum]

Grad students enter a community in which being smart is taken for granted.  In fact, they usually find themselves shocked by the (seeming) brilliance of their peers and strongly suspect that they don't deserve to be there.  If the program encourages the casual use of very specialized vocabulary, and if the area of study is one in which students are choosing passion over becoming well-paid, the combination of these forces often encourages a compensating attitude of cynical distaste and verbal bantering.

In other words, showing how clever you are because you "see through" the work of others makes you feel better about yourself.   It's fun, and it compensates for any fears of not being smart enough or strong enough to succeed in your field.

Most of us, fortunately, grow out of this stage.  You know it happens when you find yourself admiring the brilliance of a younger colleague without feeling resentful or unappreciated.

But, of course, I could be entirely wrong.

[grasshopper]

My momma always said, "If you can't say anything bad, don't say anything at all."  Momma loved a good war of words.

Google has let me down.  Who said, "If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit beside me"? 

I looked for my guesses, Tallulah Bankhead and Truman Capote, with no luck.

Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)

And Olympia Dukakis in Steel Magnolias.

[fiona]

I wonder how many of us were publicly praised, or praised much, by our grad school professors.

I don't remember that I was. And only about 10 (ten) % of my class ever finished their dissertations.

Workshopping, too, encourages the search for things that are wrong rather than things that are right or well-done.

Balancing_Act's situation is unusual, and welcome. It sounds like Balancing_Act's class is training people to be professionals and teachers, instead of nitpickers and critics.

I hate the word "Chime" on these fora, but "Chime" is a generous acknowledgment, not a putdown. Although, of course, snark is often merited and dished out generously, too.

The Fiona, mulling