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[aristotelian]

Two question for the folks who have greener thumbs than I.  Does anyone have:

1.  recommendations for clay-tolerant plants (veggies or flowers)?

2.  suggestions for repelling deer, other than the really stinky spray stuff that makes sitting out on the patio miserable on a hot summer night?

I've had clay soil everywhere I've lived.  I try to amend the soil in spots whenever I'm planting something that wouldn't do well in clay.  If you don't have your own compost on hand you can buy 50lb bags of it for a few dollars at Home Depot. 

We have had very good luck with most of our herbs: thyme, lemon balm, sage, etc seem to have no problem establishing themselves.  Tomatoes have done just fine.  Look out for plants that need "well draining soil".  Potatoes are notorious for needing amended soil.

For deer: we had decent luck with an organic product we found at the garden store.  I forget what it was called,  but it came in a brown powder and the main ingredient was "blood meal".  Kind of gross but it seemed to do the trick or at least minimize the problem and it's invisible and odorless to people.

Another question:  We are coming up on last frost, which means it is almost time to plant tomatoes.  What are your favorite varieties?

My favorite is Cherokee Purple.  Great flavor, very fleshy, no mealy texture, and distinctive color and shape.  Only problem is they are late bloomers and do not produce as much as some varieties.

So I need an early bloomer to satisfy my tomato cravings while I am counting the days for my Cherokee Purples.  Any recommendations?

[seeweed]

Ooh, I love Cherokee Purples. I have a few that are getting ready to go in the ground this weekend. Another favorite that produces earlier is the Green Zebra. They're sweet, but a little bit tangy and excellent in salsa or tomato sandwiches. Yum. I can't wait. I'm also interested in other tomato suggestions, if anyone has any.

About the deer: this is labor-intensive and not very aesthetically pleasing, but they apparently do not like things brushing against their faces. I had a neighbor who kept them out of her sizable garden by stringing up a dental floss fence. She had to make it quite high (~ 8 ft or so), but it worked. You could probably use fishing line as well.

[barred_owl]

For deer: we had decent luck with an organic product we found at the garden store.  I forget what it was called,  but it came in a brown powder and the main ingredient was "blood meal".  Kind of gross but it seemed to do the trick or at least minimize the problem and it's invisible and odorless to people.

Thanks, aristotelian!  I'm going to look for this on the next gardening-related outing.  I'm living in fear of the deer mutilating my star-gazer lilies, like they did last year, not to mention the number they've already done on the pretty dwarf hydrangea I planted two years ago.

[pink_]

I too am dealing with an English Ivy infestation.  It took over my backyard many years before it became my backyard.  I've been pulling it off the the trees back there (I was amazed at just how high it climbed!).  The house is next, but luckily the house is brick, so there's no damage that I can see.

I have a feeling that the best bet would be to just hire someone to bring a Bobcat in and start from scratch, but I can't afford it yet.

[dept_geek]

barred_owl: hostas do great in clay, as do traditional spring bulbs (tulips, hyacinths, daffodils, etc). As to veggies, I have everything containers (I don't need to grow a lot) so I can nicely control the soil. That might make a good stopgap until you get your yard the way you want it.

[biomancer]

I just moved in and am slowly getting going with the gardening at the new place, so most of my tips come from having always had a garden (a large one - ~25x40 feet or more) growing up.

Deer:  Best trick I ever tried was cayenne pepper powder.  I sprinkle this on the plants I don't' want the deer to eat.  They'll take one bite and learn a lesson - and if you're up early enough to catch the show, have a videocamera handy.  You need to re-apply after a rain, but if you have a herd of regulars who show up every day, they'll learn quickly to leave those plants alone.

Clay soil:  Best option is raised beds.  Next best option is to till the heck out of it and work in as much compost, proper topsoil, peat moss, or other organic matter as you can.  

I probably won't manage much of a vegetable garden until next year, though I do hope to have a few container gardens going this year.  There's just too many other things we need to do to the house, and I'm limited by both time and money.  (Yes, the garden eventually saves money, but setting up raised beds, buying compost since I wasn't able to bring it from the old house, etc. will cost $$).  

I am growing tomatillos for the first time this year (I'm in zone 5b so they'll live inside until June).  Any advice?  I'm thus far figuring that I'll treat them similarly to tomatoes.

[sweetcider]

I live in an apartment, so my garden is a plot in the community gardens.  We just got access for the season last weekend, so I'm still busy trying to get my fence up.  (Deer are a major issue in my area, so the fence needs to be quite impressive.)  I do just veggies/herbs at the garden - but I do lots of those (beans, cukes, peas, carrots, more beans, lettuce, spinach, swiss chard, more beans, zucchini, butternut squash, basil, cilantro, onions and on).  I have a second freezer to store the extras for winter.  Someday I'll have my own place where I can do things that need more than one summer as well.

I tried starting eggplant, peppers and tomatoes from seed this year.  I'm not sure they are going to make it, so I might have to go buy plants in a few weeks.  Any recommendations for eggplant varieties? 

[barred_owl]

Hi, pink. 

I hate to be a bearer of bad news, but on a brick house, the ivy damage does occur.  The rootlets on the ivy stems can infiltrate the mortar between the bricks, providing a conduit for moisture.  If you live in an area that is subject to freezing temps in winter, the moisture can expand and loosen the bond between the bricks and mortar.  Ivy is evil in that, and almost every other, respect!

What I've read about ivy in trees is a little scary.  When it goes up high, it gets more sunlight and is able to produce larger leaves and masses of stems that weigh down the tree branches.  When that happens, the affected branches of the trees can snap off, potentially causing damage to structures (or people) below. 

Can you tell that I absolutely hate English ivy?  I have a slightly greater tolerance for poison ivy because it is a native plant (in North America) and it provides food for wildlife.  Humans and, oddly, pigs are the only species susceptible to the skin irritation caused by the oils in the poison ivy plant.

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On preview:  Thanks, biomancer--another good, organic solution to the deer problem.  With the stargazers, though, the first bite they took last year was to nip off the flower buds, whole.  Thus, no flowers last year. For the hydrangeas, though, it sounds like another good option.

And thanks to you, too, dg.  I think we'll work on soil amendments this year, then look to establishing the garden next year.  We have hostas in abundance!  If there were some way to distribute them to the folks on this thread, I'd be handing them out right and left! :)

[mdwlark]

True confession time.  At my previous address I (blush) planted English Ivy under a tree.  It is cute when it's young.  The current owner can fight it and curse me.

[pink_]

Thanks Barred_owl!
The removal of the ivy from the house project just got moved up to this weekend!

What do folks here think about products like Round-up?  I know that it's not the ideal solution in most cases, but I feel like it's all I can do to keep up with the Ivy myself.  It's been growing unchecked for at least five years, probably closer to ten.  It's just now reaching the house, but the plants in the back of the yard have roots and crowns that are as thick as my wrist.

[relationalista]

...  The flower patch includes hostas, a lavender plant, star-gazer lilies, balloon flowers, and these very cool "goose-head" flowers that are spreading like wildfire.  I want to get a little more color in there, though--hence, the dahlias.

Barred owl, the goose-head flowers are gooseneck loosestrife (are yours white?), which is very cool but can easily infiltrate everything. It's not quite as spready as purple loosestrife, which is considered seriously invasive in many places (do not let it get near a ditch or a water source!) but some people plant them in containers to, umm, contain them.

As for deer, cayenne will work but will also need to be reapplied fairly frequently, especially after rain (we had a similar problem with squirrel-deterrent cayenne a few years back). Garden centres and Home Depot sell Critter Ridder, which is primarily cayenne/capsicum and so isn't harmful to the soil or other growing things.

Biomancer, I grew tomatillos a couple of years ago (zone 5b) and was thrilled to find that they were prolific and pest-resistant -- as with ground cherries, they come with their own little protective casing! Nature is cool. Treating them like tomatoes is just the thing, and they might even need a bit less attention.

Chime on the green zebra tomato. One of my other current favourites is the black cherry tomato. Tons of flavour and great yield. I mostly do heirloom varieties, and am doing all cherry/small-sized tomatoes this year.

[inthelab]

We bought deer zappers.  They are not at all perturbed by thin lines that brush their faces.  The deer zappers are expensive and you need a bunch of them to work.

We are re-landscaping the front of our house.  Took out the old dying bushes, split the huge Nikko Blue hydrangea to put in their places.  Will remove the azaleas from under thew rhoides; the azaleas aren't doing well but the rhodies are great.  Finally, will remove a black pine that's up against the side of the house and put something else there.  Maybe a mountain laurel, since it will be by the rhodies.

[inthelab]

Can you tell that I absolutely hate English ivy?  I have a slightly greater tolerance for poison ivy because it is a native plant (in North America) and it provides food for wildlife.  Humans and, oddly, pigs are the only species susceptible to the skin irritation caused by the oils in the poison ivy plant.

Not quite true; I've given it to mice (even published a paper on it).  I recall rats and guinea pigs can get it too.  If the urushiols (active oils) gets into the skin, they can sensitize most mammals.  The rash is actually an immune response to the oils.

[barred_owl]

Pink:  Round-up doesn't work all that well on ivy, I think partly because the ivy has such a waxy cuticle on the leaves that the chemicals can't penetrate into the soft tissues and vessels in the plant (botanists out there may have better info, though).  Our ivy removal process, once the underground portions were removed by the contractor (who would not touch the stuff growing on the house, btw--he only severed the stems near the foundation and dug out the roots and surface stems), was to pull off the stems by hand.  We had to use a small saw, like a keyhole saw, to cut through the thicker stems, and various tools to pry the stems off the siding before we could remove them safely.  It took about a week to remove it all.  

Also, with regard to Round-up: if it does start to kill the ivy plant, you'll have to try to remove the dead portions a.s.a.p.  Once the dead material starts to dry out, it's much, much harder to work with it because it's not as pliable, and just breaks off in short pieces.

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On preview:  Relationalista--I'm fairly certain that the goosehead flowers are not loosestrife, but I'm going to check.  A friend gave me a few starters of the plant and referred to it by its scientific name, which I have forgotten.  You're right about purple loosestrife--another nearly impossible-to-control invasive; it ranks right up there with garlic mustard, honeysuckle, and buckthorn in our region!

Inthelab:  Love rhodies!  We had two huge rhody bushes in our Pacific Northwest state and absolutely fell in love with them.

Not quite true; I've given it to mice (even published a paper on it).  I recall rats and guinea pigs can get it too.  If the urushiols (active oils) gets into the skin, they can sensitize most mammals.  The rash is actually an immune response to the oils.

Cool! Well, you know...It's cool to have the new (to me) information. I knew about the immune response part (and have used it as an example when talking about immune system function in a gen ed bio course), but not about the sensitization part in mammals.  Thanks, inthelab! :)  I should read your paper!  Feel free to pm me with the reference, if you're comfortable doing so.

[scheherazade]

Thanks Barred_owl!
The removal of the ivy from the house project just got moved up to this weekend!

What do folks here think about products like Round-up?  I know that it's not the ideal solution in most cases, but I feel like it's all I can do to keep up with the Ivy myself.  It's been growing unchecked for at least five years, probably closer to ten.  It's just now reaching the house, but the plants in the back of the yard have roots and crowns that are as thick as my wrist.

Round-Up probably won't work on stuff that large.  Go to Home Depot and pick up brush killer.  Cut off the ivy and put the brush killer on the stump.