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[prof_smartypants]

I've never posted or spent much time in this part of the fora, so I apologize if I'm being obtuse or repeating questions that have come up in the past. I also don't know if I should be posting this in "the interviewing process" but I figured since it's non-tt specific, I'd start here.

I recently interviewed for a tt position, but was offered a lecturer position when the tt position went to the current guy in the lecturer position. While the contract is year by year, there is funding for 3 years, at which point they hope to convert the position to TT. Furthermore, although it's non-tt, the responsibilities and requirements are fairly similar to what I was told when I interviewed for the TT position.

I've had an offer over the phone, which wasn't that clear or specific. The chair expects me to get back to him on Wednesday. What I have is a list of points on which I want clarity (and may negotiate on). I suppose my questions are:

1) How negotiable is a non-tt offer in terms of salary, benefits, and extras?
2) How to approach my "list"? Should I send an email, do it over the phone? I'm an "in writing" kind of girl - should I simply ask the chair for an offer in writing clarifying these issues?

The list is:
Basics
•   Salary: plan to ask for 5% above offer
•   Moving expenses - is this insane? How common is this? How much is reasonable?
•   Benefits: for spouse? (medical, athletic facility use)
•   Housing arrangements: any faculty housing? Short-term sublets?

Research
•   Conference and travel support: any for lecturer level position? $$ mentioned for TT position –  is funding available for lecturer position – how much?
•   Laboratory or office start-up packages – need certain software packages loaded on office personal machine (or addi’l $$ in funding to procure software necessary for research)
•   Private office? Personal or shared printer? Clerical and administrative support?

Teaching expectations/responsibilities
•   Graduate-student assistance: want an assistant guaranteed for fall
•   Committee work: clarify expectations
•   Advising load: ask about expectations

I do not want to come across as prima donna, but I also don't want to jump at this job in a crappy market and screw myself for not negotiating. My concern is that I have no idea whether there are different "rules" regarding negotiating for non-tt than tt positions.

Any help or advice? Sorry for the long post.

[systeme_d_]

At my place, a VAP or lecturer has little room for negotiation, particularly in terms of salary.  Moving expenses are simply not available.

However, spousal medical benefits are always included.  Athletic facility use is available for a fee, which cannot be negotiated away.

Housing is not available, but a chair could help you find a great rental place.

A fixed amount of conference/travel money is available.

Necessary software would be provided, but details would need to be arranged through the chair.

A private office would be assured, as would administrative support, shared with the rest of the department.

A dedicated TA/grad student would not be possible.

Commitee work and advising work would not be expected/allowed.


I thought I would post these things (applicable only to my department, obviously) to give you a humanities example.

My first question to the chair would be whether there is room for negotiation about salary and niceties.  Then let the chair take the conversation from there.

[gift_horse]

Most of the things you're asking for clarification on are not extras (salary, teaching load, assistants), they are necessities. Deciding on whether or not to take the job is dependent upon these things. They can't reasonably expect that you'd give them and answer in two days without these essential figures.

[jwormold]

I got moving expenses, a fixed amount of conference money (which disappeared with the budget cuts... grrrrrr), full health benefits.  I had use of a grad assistant but he turned out to be a total dud (he fetched a library book for me, once; it was too much to actually put it on reserve).  I share a printer, I got a laptop (a few years old) pre-loaded with the department's standard issue software. 

I have had to advise (ha!), but I'm certainly not doing any committee work.

My school is not in what would be called the most desirable location, or in a location with a lot of local people who could do the job, so that might explain the moving expenses.

[watermarkup]

I don't see any harm in asking about any of these. The financials on my first visiting position were horrible, but the department kicked in $300 for moving expenses once I asked. No, it didn't cover the cost of moving, but earning $300 in the 10 seconds it takes to ask the question isn't too shabby, either. You won't get anything that you don't ask for.

[seniorscholar]

The list provided by systeme_d is identical to the one for my English department (do we teach at the same school?)

And clearly the way to begin is on the telephone, by asking politely if there is room for negotiation on some basic issues. Putting a list such as the one you propose in an e-mail is a really horrid idea, since it shows an attitude that would be an instant turn-off and/or makes the chair -- who wants to be a "good guy" to the new VAPs -- feel awkward and unhappy that so many things you want simply can't be done.

For all hires, at least in most departments I know about, the back-and-forth negotiation is handled by the department chair, who sometimes has to say "I'll speak to the Dean to see if that's possible" until a general agreement is reached and then e-mails the specifics for the candidate to approve before producing a letter to be signed by both parties.

[prof_smartypants]

Thanks, everyone! srscholar, I was not going to put the list in an email!

I would, however, like an offer in writing. I spent about a half hour on the phone with the chair on Friday where he gave me a salary range and course load info. That's about it. I feel like I need more specifics before I even begin talking about negotiating, no? It's probably better to do so over the phone - as tone can be very difficult to nail via email. But I'd still like it in writing. Am I being paranoid?

[kedves]

I got moving expenses, a fixed amount of conference money (which disappeared with the budget cuts... grrrrrr), full health benefits.  I had use of a grad assistant but he turned out to be a total dud (he fetched a library book for me, once; it was too much to actually put it on reserve).  I share a printer, I got a laptop (a few years old) pre-loaded with the department's standard issue software. 

I have had to advise (ha!), but I'm certainly not doing any committee work.

My school is not in what would be called the most desirable location, or in a location with a lot of local people who could do the job, so that might explain the moving expenses.

I had almost exactly the same experience with 4/4 schedule but no advising duties.  Also ask about summer teaching opportunities.  These are a mixed blessing--money vs. research time--but might be important to you.  I didn't get anything in writing except salary/benefits; it was all verbal at the end of my interview visit (on-the-spot offer). 

[seniorscholar]

I would, however, like an offer in writing. I spent about a half hour on the phone with the chair on Friday where he gave me a salary range and course load info. That's about it. I feel like I need more specifics before I even begin talking about negotiating, no? It's probably better to do so over the phone - as tone can be very difficult to nail via email. But I'd still like it in writing. Am I being paranoid?

The reason chairs prefer to negotiate over the phone is that they may well have authority to spend a particular amount, which they can give you all in salary or, giving you a smaller salary by a couple of thousand dollars, make you happy by offering moving expenses, research money, a work-study student if not a RA, or whatever. Thus they do not like to commit themselves to a salary figure in isolation.

And of course you want everything in writing before you say "yes."

But do realize, that for a Lecturer position, it's not likely the chair can run to the Provost for more money to get this ideal person we must have (as can sometimes be done even if the Dean says no if it's a TT line). The chair probably has a pretty narrow window, but sometimes can nudge it up a very little when the combination of "extras" has been worked out by going to the Dean for a bit more in salary.

You want to be able to hear tone in all of this. The Chair wants you; at this point the chair is your friend. And it's always possible that the range is all the Dean provided; chair too wants to have something concrete before going off to negotiate with the dean, since making a second and third and fourth trip to the dean to ask for more is a pretty good way for the chair to annoy the dean and get less instead of more.

[prof_smartypants]

Thanks!

I spoke to the chair today. All you said is on the mark, seniorscholar. I already got an increase in salary, and he's pushing the dean for some travel reimbursements and research costs, which are not typically given to non-tt positions, but this position is long term and they have hopes of converting it to TT, so the chair was optimistic that he could get some concessions.

[drpud]

Wow! This is really making me want to turn down my current TT offer at a SLAC. They kept emphasizing during the interview that the (fairly low) salary wasn't negotiable w/o more experience on my end because it is an entry-level assistant prof. position. So all I've really asked for thus far is some help with moving expenses and a spot in the on-campus daycare for my child.

Am I being totally stupid here and screwing myself? If prof_smartypants can have this sort of luck negotiating for more salary and research $ for a lecturer position, am I selling myself short for the TT job? I've only been able to negotiate via email thus far, too, because the dean has been "too busy" to talk to me until (coincidentally) the day I am supposed to make my final decision. Hu has been gracious via email but won't get back to me about either of the items I've requested until the final hour, basically.

I had also thought about asking for more salary but wanted to wait and do it on the phone. Now that time has gone by I am afraid they will be annoyed thatI didn't just ask in the first place via email.

Am I being had here or what??

[erzuliefreda]

Am I being had here or what??

It all depends on the norms for that university system, campus, college, department, etc., as well as your individual relationship to all those entities. For my TT job, I received $0 in moving (my campus reimburses moving expenses only for high-end administrators), and $0 in additional salary. If I had declined the offer, they would have hired someone else.

[prof_smartypants]

Actually the research startup was a non-starter.
And I only got an add'l grand in salary. Push for all you can, though - but in this economy, there isn't much wiggle room.

[drpud]

Thanks for letting me know! While you may not have gotten as much as you were hoping, every little bit helps. Congrats on your offer and successful negotiation thus far, too, by the way.